Price Guides and State of the Market

[KilaOhm]

Hi All, Happy New Year!

I know this is always subjective and often a point of contention with most, but I’m wondering your opinions.

I entered into the hobby around summer 2022 and while shopping for my first pin I tried to use pinballprices.com and pinside as a point of reference to figure out whether or not I was over paying. Every time I reference these sites in negotiations I was told the prices there weren’t relevant as Covid had driven up prices and Canada always paid a premium on pins. So the prices on those websites were always low by comparison.

Recently I’ve been trying to sell and trade some machines and wouldn’t you know it, now I’m being told the prices on those websites are irrelevant because the market has fallen and now those references are high compared to what a particular pin could demand.

What are your opinions on these sites? How reliable are they? Are there any other sources I could reference for pricing? How do you think the current valuations on pinside stack up to your expectations? Would you be offended if you were “low balled” on your asking price if somebody was using those sites to base their offers?

 

[MrMikeman]

If using Pinside it’s important to check the archived sales of the particular game you are considering selling. Asking prices are not a good reference. Look at the last 3-4 months. Ignore the ones that say not sold. Assume the selling price was 200-500 lower than the asking. That should give you a rough estimate.

You got in the hobby at a real shitty time. You overpaid but this was inevitable at the time. Everything was expensive even the traditionally cheaper/shittier games. Times are getting back to “normal” and bad/boring games are fetching less than the games in demand.

You need to determine how badly you want to sell your things. In the end you will sell it for what someone is prepared to pay. Get a ballpark value, start there, then lower your price every week or 2 until it sells.

Selling on a pinball forum means you are generally facing a tougher crowd than FB or Kijiji. Don’t get offended by low ball offers. You will get them. Don’t forget that what you perceive as a low offer may be perceived as a decent one by the person making the offer. They could be out to lunch but so could your asking price. There’s a balance somewhere.

 

[Joker19]

I mean this is the tactics people have been using... When they are selling then will.compare and say whatever. When they want to buy, they use the other arguments...

Is it true that the pinball market is slower than what it was during COVID, for sure.

I always say buy for a price you are comfortable and ok to pay for and sell for a price you are comfortable and ok with.

If I get a low ball offer, I wouldn't get offended and just say that this is too low and come back with a rebuttal, now that rebuttal might be my asking price...

Looking are recent sold pins and the price they sold for is what I would compare things to on site like pinside or here. It's hard because people rarely divulge what they paid or sold their pins for. But can sometimes estimate.

If you check the for sale thread here, you can see, pins are still selling, some slower then other, that could be because of title, condition, price or time of year or all 4 or a combo of those.

Again, if you feel ok with the price/trade, then it's a win. I buy or trade to play pins and have fun with them.

 

[KilaOhm]

I mean this is the tactics people have been using... When they are selling then will.compare and say whatever. When they want to buy, they use the other arguments...

Is it true that the pinball market is slower than what it was during COVID, for sure.

I always say buy for a price you are comfortable and ok to pay for and sell for a price you are comfortable and ok with.

If I get a low ball offer, I wouldn't get offended and just say that this is too low and come back with a rebuttal, now that rebuttal might be my asking price...

Looking are recent sold pins and the price they sold for is what I would compare things to on site like pinside or here. It's hard because people rarely divulge what they paid or sold their pins for. But can sometimes estimate.

If you check the for sale thread here, you can see, pins are still selling, some slower then other, that could be because of title, condition, price or time of year or all 4 or a combo of those.

Again, if you feel ok with the price/trade, then it's a win. I buy or trade to play pins and have fun with them.

Thanks for your thoughts. I know I came a little late to the party. It doesn’t bother me too much. I’ve enjoyed my games all the same.

 

[roar]

I am not a high volume seller or buyer but I have never used pinballprices.com. I use pinside as a quick sanity check and usually add exchange + HST to any of those prices to get what a reasonable "ball park" price would be to me. Ultimately it will be the condition of the game that slides the value of the game up or down that scale.

PBrev is another good place to go for recent sales, assuming the seller doesn't pull down their prices after the sale, I don't understand why people do that, but it's their ad, they can do what they want.

What you're experiencing is very typical, don't let yourself get bullied by more experienced sellers/buyers, set a price you're comfortable with and move on when people start trying to educate you and you start to feel uncomfortable about it, there will ALWAYS be another game out there you can buy.

 

[ZoomZoomBoomBoom]

Something to keep in mind as well are exchange rate changes. A 10% change in rate on a $10K pin is an extra $1K...

 

[kool1]

I mean this is the tactics people have been using... When they are selling then will.compare and say whatever. When they want to buy, they use the other arguments...

Is it true that the pinball market is slower than what it was during COVID, for sure.

I always say buy for a price you are comfortable and ok to pay for and sell for a price you are comfortable and ok with.

If I get a low ball offer, I wouldn't get offended and just say that this is too low and come back with a rebuttal, now that rebuttal might be my asking price...

Looking are recent sold pins and the price they sold for is what I would compare things to on site like pinside or here. It's hard because people rarely divulge what they paid or sold their pins for. But can sometimes estimate.

If you check the for sale thread here, you can see, pins are still selling, some slower then other, that could be because of title, condition, price or time of year or all 4 or a combo of those.

Again, if you feel ok with the price/trade, then it's a win. I buy or trade to play pins and have fun with them.

I agree with most of this.

As a financial advisor, pinball is a what I would call a thin and somewhat illiquid market (depending on the pin of course). Recent ads and sales give you a good idea for sure. The Pinside prices converted to CAD aren't a bad yardstick either just to at least give you a ballpark price. I would add though that because US buyers often no tax, I find Canadian resale on newer pins tends to be a bit higher because we all pay tax and want a bit of that back.

 

[Wildcats50]

If you’re not comfortable selling but want a new pin the trade market is always the way to go. I have had numerous good trades on this site and met some stand up guys as well

 

[websherpa]

What they say above is all true. The books and US web sites have NEVER been much of an indication because the market goes up and down constantly (supply and demand, titles loved or hated). I remember buying and selling STTNGs relatively cheap because everyone cool HATED the STTNG franchise! At most those references can give you a general feeling for what the market was like in the near past. It even differs province to province and location to location (Ottawa and Quebec used to be the "haven" for good private deals amongst collectors).

Some of us have been buying, fixing and selling pinball machines since the 1970's (maybe earlier) ... imagine the sticker shock when you go from people telling you "I'll pay you to take it out of my basement." or "I have 5 titles in my barn that you can have for $1000" to today's asking prices. lol

I always hated selling because NO MATTER WHAT PRICE you list at, someone will show up after agreeing on a price and offer less "just to see if they can get away with it." I've had purchases (with price agreed upon in advance) kiboshed on route to pickup because someone called and offered more. In at least one case the "new" buyer showed up after then offered LESS, AND had that same seller call back apologetically. You have to develop a thick skin in what I coined "The Pinball Piracy" in Canada.

Once mortgages in Canada fell rapidly below 6% (somewhere in around 2009 I think) the market dropped out for us long time fixers, collectors and resellers. Gone were the days of cheap private finds and routed operator barn finds as the value climbed rapidly due to younger people buying houses and wanting to create man caves. What surprised me most was the plethora of new manufacturers keeping the new machine pricing so high (but the market changed when bars and restaurants were less of a market here in Canada)!

I regret selling some machines that I thought I could easily buy again since they quickly got priced out of my reach (and I miss those dearly - looking at you Rollergames and Cactus Jacks!).

I predict that prices for real machines will start falling en masse again soon due in part to old hoarders like myself succumbing to our age, and the great improvements made to Virtual and VR pinball.

 

[KilaOhm]

Thanks for all your input. I wonder what will happen to the prices of some of these 90s Bally Williams games as they are set to begin remaking some of them soon. I’m really not trying to obtain titles as a means of investment. I just want to play and enjoy as many games as I possibly can and then pass them on for others to enjoy. As long as I don’t lose my shirt on the process. Ha! I’m just happy to be here.

 

[ZoomZoomBoomBoom]

Thanks for all your input. I wonder what will happen to the prices of some of these 90s Bally Williams games as they are set to begin remaking some of them soon. I’m really not trying to obtain titles as a means of investment. I just want to play and enjoy as many games as I possibly can and then pass them on for others to enjoy. As long as I don’t lose my shirt on the process. Ha! I’m just happy to be here.

If you are in the Barrie area, check out Last Level Lounge. They have 7 pins.

 

[KilaOhm]

If you are in the Barrie area, check out Last Level Lounge. They have 7 pins.

I’ve been there many times! It’s my favourite spot in town. Even participated in the league they hosted last year. Hoping they bring it back. Was thinking about speaking with them and Flying Monkey (they have 4 machines) about organizing one myself.

 

[kool1]

I predict that prices for real machines will start falling en masse again soon due in part to old hoarders like myself succumbing to our age, and the great improvements made to Virtual and VR pinball.

If younger generations (under 35-40) don't get into pinball in a bigger way, I think used pinball machine prices will definitely come down big time in the future. I'm encouraged to see younger people playing at places like Tilt in Toronto but do they love the game enough to own machines at home like we all do?

 

[KilaOhm]

If younger generations (under 35-40) don't get into pinball in a bigger way, I think used pinball machine prices will definitely come down big time in the future. I'm encouraged to see younger people playing at places like Tilt in Toronto but do they love the game enough to own machines at home like we all do?

Most people under 35 can’t even afford a home much less a pinball machine.

 

[MrMikeman]

Most people under 35 can’t even afford a home much less a pinball machine.

That won't stop them. Seems a lot of <35 peeps can't tell the difference or prioritize between what they need (food & shelter) and what they want (entertainment). Can't afford food or gas but hey at least they have the latest iPhone!

Yes I know it's not everybody in that age bracket that is like that. Seems fairly common though.

 

[kool1]

Seeing a bit of growth in locations also, the success of barcades, micro breweries and entertainment centers is definitely key to the future.

Stern should do everything it can to get machines into places like Dave and Busters which don't seem to have any right now.

 

[BMHouze]

Personally I follow my pins.
Pinside send the Rev are great to watch.
When my brother offered me his Simpsons for 1500, I did some research and figured shopped with new head decals it would be around 4K
I got it working, played some games and hated it.
Put it on kijijii for offers over 2K
Had 2 crazy offers in an hour.
When #1 showed up, he had cash and I told him to get a good look. Feel free to walk away. I have other decent offers.
Gave my brother some bonus $$$
My normal Pinsale rule of thumb is no offer in 2 weeks you are too high or there's no one looking at this time for the title.

 

[KilaOhm]

Seeing a bit of growth in locations also, the success of barcades, micro breweries and entertainment centers is definitely key to the future.

Stern should do everything it can to get machines into places like Dave and Busters which don't seem to have any right now.

We have a rec room in Barrie. Full of games but only 4 pins. But there is a barcade and a micro brewery up the road that have 7 and 4 pins of their own and better beer.

 

[kool1]

We have a rec room in Barrie. Full of games but only 4 pins. But there is a barcade and a micro brewery up the road that have 7 and 4 pins of their own and better beer.

All the RecRooms have 2-4 pins which is awesome. Next Level in Barrie is pretty good I hear.

 

[KilaOhm]

All the RecRooms have 2-4 pins which is awesome. Next Level in Barrie is pretty good I hear.

It’s called Last Level and it is awesome! It’s a small space unfortunately so they can’t add too much but everything they have is in good shape and they maintain it well. Staff is great. The walls and ceilings are plastered with 80s and 90s goodness. There is literally nowhere you can look without seeing something cool. $2 all you can play on Wednesdays!