AFM & CDN/USD Pricing

[Chambahz]

Question:
what's an AFM worth here in Ontario?
Obviously a wide range depending on condition, but is it fair to say "Pinside Price" + 13% for duties, and another $500 for shipping?
ie: if there's one at $8000 listed in the US, would that same machine be worth $8,000 + 13% + $500 = approx $9,500 here?

Could you expect to see that anyone selling an AFM here will be much higher than in the US simply because we have to pay much more just to get them here?
Same goes for any pic really, but the more they cost there, the greater the 13% duties cost.

Anyone care to share what they've seen them go for lately (here in Canada, not the States), and what kind of shape they've been in?

Lastly, anyone care to suggest what they'd be willing to pay for one that's a routed machine, completely playable, but in need of a thorough cleaning, flipper rebuild, and possibly PF swap depending on how mint you with to restore it (some wear and scratches, but nothing worse than you would expect from a routed machine)? Cab's in great shape, but decals are rough looking and very faded.

 

[luch]

I would say in my opinion , that prices in ontario are more then in the usa , because of the limited supply of machines , and the total cost of time, travel, taxes ,etc, etc. when purchasing from the us . as for AFM i would say minty clean would be 10k plus in ontario , as for one needing work 4k to 5k

 

[luch]

here is probably the best AFM ever http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ ... s-a-beauty click the link in first post to see the pictures wow

 

[tim.sanderson]

A well timed topic for me. I was going to start a thread asking what I can expect the cost to be if I bought a machine south of the border, but this seems close enough for me to post here. There seems to be some real good prices on PinSide, but I'm not sure just how good of a deal the machine would have to be for it to be worth it.

I know there would be duty, but I'm not sure what to expect as a total.

To keep things simple mathwise, lets say I found a good machine in New York for $1000. (not including and fuel/toll/accommodation fees) What could I expect to pay to get it to my driveway?

 

[frolic]

Besides the effort/cost to go get it, add 13% HST at the border.

It might be worth it. I think the biggest problem with buying games up here is availability, there just aren't that many around.

 

[tim.sanderson]

Cool, I didn't know it was simply our sales tax. That's not too bad at all.
There's a few machines south of the border that I've had my eyes on. I won't be ready to buy until sometime after February, so they will likely be sold by then, but hopefully there will be something similar then, too.

 

[DRANO]

The only thing I would add is that, its generally considered to be "poor form" to pass tax and transportation costs onto the next buyer. If you're bringing the game in for yourself and its a rare title, go ahead and pay the premium of tax and shipping. I've done it many times. But if you're bringing the games in to eventually sell, the inflated prices will turn off most local buyers.
Local collectors generally wait for local deals or go get the games themselves rather than pay top dollar.
That's my two cents.

 

[McMean]

+1

If you're a dealer, then that's your business and that's fine. A business always passes on the cost.
But if you're just a tglover hobbiest looking to flip and make money.... perhaps not good form to ask, lol.

The only thing I would add is that, its generally considered to be "poor form" to pass tax and transportation costs onto the next buyer.

 

[tim.sanderson]

One particular machine I looked at here in Ontario was going to cost me $1695. I've found a guy selling the same machine less than an hour past the border. Probably a 4 hour round trip. If I do the math, including gas money and duty at the border etc, it'd still cost me at around $200 to $300 dollars less than the local one.
As long as the machine is as good a condition as the local example, a less expensive pin being brought into the local scene surely can't be considered bad form.

I have no interest in trying to make a buck off of my first machine. I'm simply trying to find a good deal on a machine I can play in my basement. I'm not going to cross the border for a machine that costs me more than I can get locally. That would be silly!

 

[frolic]

Well, one could easily over pay for a machine bought in Canada as well. Just do your home work.

 

[DRANO]

One particular machine I looked at here in Ontario was going to cost me $1695. I've found a guy selling the same machine less than an hour past the border. Probably a 4 hour round trip. If I do the math, including gas money and duty at the border etc, it'd still cost me at around $200 to $300 dollars less than the local one.
As long as the machine is as good a condition as the local example, a less expensive pin being brought into the local scene surely can't be considered bad form.

I have no interest in trying to make a buck off of my first machine. I'm simply trying to find a good deal on a machine I can play in my basement. I'm not going to cross the border for a machine that costs me more than I can get locally. That would be silly!

In your scenario the game is being brought in for less than a local one would cost... and that's after transport and tax. In this scenario you basically just got a great deal and you can pat yourself on the back. Ether that or the local seller was way off base on his pricing.

The original post is asking if an $8000 game is immediately worth $9500 here in Ontario due to the cost of importing it... and the answer is NO. Generally speaking, prices are pretty similar across the board. There are always regional differences and areas with lower availability of pins will experience higher prices paid by the local collectors. However, an $8K AFM in the US is pretty much an $8K AFM in Canada. Transport and tax are not items that add value and are generally not cool to tack on. In fact, even basic maintenance costs that keep the game running are not really acceptable add-ons to the price.

it's like saying "I'm selling you my 2009 truck which is technically worth $12,000 on the market, but I've spent $1500 in maintenance and parts over the last few years to keep it running, so pay me$13,500 instead".

Now, if you got that same game for a steal (say $5500) in the US and it cost you $1200 or so to bring it home, the normal market for a nice AFM is still in the $7-$8K range and there is no reason to undercut yourself and sell for less. Again, just pat yourself on the back for finding a great deal and take the profit.

Adding false value through taxes, shipping, maintenance and perceived higher demand vs. supply in particular area is what I'm talking about. It's one of the reasons this hobby is getting out of reach for many.

 

[frolic]

It's funny how this is literally the only hobby in the world where no one expects to lose money.

 

[tim.sanderson]

If I wanted to argue those points, I'd say that fuel costs 16¢/L in Saudi Arabia, but it costs $1.20/L after it's imported to me here in Canada. If I flew to S.A. and filled up a Jerry can of gas, it would be worth more to me than $1.20/L when I got home. It doesn't mean I'd expect anyone to pay the $1500 it cost me to bring it back. Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

For the record, I don't believe duty/export/transport fees should dictate the going rate for a machine. If it were me, I'd suck up those extra fees, and chalk it up to a road-trip that I'd remember for years.

I definitely should have started a new thread for my question! Chris already answered my deceptively simple question, so I'll throw my towel into the ring.

 

[Monkeybug]

It's funny how this is literally the only hobby in the world where no one expects to lose money.

It seems like the majority the new generation (post 2000/Williams) of collectors expects this. I know plenty of old-timers that expect a slight loss of money equating to the fun they had with the game. Sort of like a rental payment. But times have changed.

 

[McMean]

+1

It's funny how this is literally the only hobby in the world where no one expects to lose money.

It seems like the majority the new generation (post 2000/Williams) of collectors expects this. I know plenty of old-timers that expect a slight loss of money equating to the fun they had with the game. Sort of like a rental payment. But times have changed.

 

[necro_nemesis]

Great; it's not enough I'm almost eligible for Graypower, now apparently I have a new classification; the pre 2000 or Williams generation. What's that make the EM Gottlieb crowd?

"Move that Stern out of the way Sonny, I got my Williams coming through."

 

[Gerry]

this is the AFM i buy in my first container in may 2011. This pinball is sold.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOWVEMTv ... Vg&index=7