Bringing a machine to the US

[Vengeance]

So this is new territory for me.

I've never sold a game to an American before.

I'm transporting the game to papa for pickup.

What's the deal? I know I remember something about declaring the game so if I have to bring it back I don't get taxed on it. Want that as a backup in case the guy tries to lowball me at PAPA cause at that point I'm somewhat commited.

So suggestions and what I should expect at the border would be helpful.

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[luch]

rubber glove ? no just kiddin , hopefully meegis pipes in on this he knows

 

[slacker]

You need a form stamped by Canada customs saying you are taking the game over to a show. I think its a B13.
See PM

 

[spiroagnew]

If Meegis will allow, I'll provide a bit of insight.

Before you cross the bridge on your day of exit, stop off at the CBSA office. There are parking spaces to do so at all border points. Park, and enter the Customs office. You'll be looking to be issued a Y38-Identification of Articles for Temporary Exportation document. Its a little green card. It isn't something you can fill out before hand--you need to present the goods to the officer on time of export. Have the serial number of the game photographed (and printed out if you really want to be prepared). The officer may need to examine the machine regardless of the photo, so have it packed in such a way that the serial is visible. They'll fill out the form, stamp it and you'll be good to proceed to the US.

Being a former commercial machine, there may be some questions by the officer as to the nature of the goods...because the Y38 can only be issued for personal goods. It may need to be explained that this is a personal item. Do so with tact, if questioned.

Note that the Y38 only proves that the machine is Canadian goods returning upon return to Canada. If your sale falls through, and you do happen to bring the machine back, it won't be taxed as long as you present the Y38. The Y38 document has nothing to do with US Customs. You can show it to them, but it really means nothing to them. It will be up to the US officials to allow or deny the machine to enter the US regardless of whether or not you get the Y38 filled out.

Hope this helps.

 

[Hammerhead]

It will be up to the US officials to allow or deny the machine to enter the US regardless of whether or not you get the Y38 filled out.

Is that where the rubber gloves come in?

 

[Coitusmysterioso]

And these!

 

[meegis]

Spiro is a much better expert than I am when it comes to border crossing.

I can usually help out on cross Canada stuff.

 

[singlezero]

I wanted to do a 3 for 1 deal last week with the states.. his 3 games for one of mine. neither of us can cross the border yet. ill keep this in mind if my passport comes through and .. still have a willing partner

 

[Vengeance]

Thanks for the advice

Seems pretty simple.

I also have Nexus so the crossing into the US shouldn't be bad

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[DRANO]

Adam,
Be prepared to get scrutinized if you state that you are selling the machine to a US citizen. In doing so you are in effect stating that you are 'doing business' in the US. This is generally frowned upon unless you've taken certain measures. If they want to be sticklers, you would then have to go to a certain area and declare that the game is being sold and you'd have to go through more forms and pay a certain fee to conduct your affairs as a "seller". I cannot advise you on that process or what is involved. Might be best to contact the US side and inquire.

US citizens can cross into Canada, buy a game, and cross back declaring it at purchased goods. Canadians can do the same in reverse. But either party bringing goods that they plan to leave/sell into a foreign country would be subject to greater scrutiny.

That's my $0.02
Do your homework and save yourself some grief. Don't get denied entry or have to turn back to leave the game somewhere in Canada in order to enter. Worse yet, don't jeopardize your trusted traveller status.

 

[Chris Bardon]

What if you just got the paperwork saying you were bringing the game in, and then didn't come back with it? Would they have any way of tracking that? I wouldn't mention selling anything in the US unless absolutely necessary.

 

[DRANO]

The green slip only indicates your intent to return with the machine and, as spiroagnew pointed out, is only really a relevent document to Canadian customs officials.
It can certainly be shown to the US agents. However, if it were me and I was planning to bring the game to a show, I would have some backup printed correspondence with the show organizer stating my intention to bring the game to his event.

 

[cdnpinballer]

I sold a game to an american a few years ago at the Allentown show. At the time I called the US Border office and asked what I needed to present at the border. They referenced some kind of declaration form that I obtained from the internet and filled out - it was simple. At the border I stated my intentions to the officer, he glanced at the paper, crumpled it up and sent me on my way. YMMV.

 

[stiffler4444]

Ya, sadly despite there being a correct method of doing this, it will be entirely dependent on the officer you get. I cross over at least twice a week and the rules are very grey on what they can/can't/will/won't/care to do.

But it's not really a big deal. I'd get that card that was mentioned earlier. Say you are taking it to a show. Don't offer any additional details. They will ask you 'what for' in any number of different tones depending on the officer as mentioned earlier. Explain it honestly, again with no un necessary detail.

On the way back, if you are without the machine, the Canadian side will have no idea you even crossed with it.

 

[FastEd]

Doesn't this leave you with an "open" Y38 document?

 

[spiroagnew]

Doesn't this leave you with an "open" Y38 document?

No. It doesn't need to be "closed". The Y38 is good for as long as you own the item.

 

[shinynick]

I just went through this with US customs and learned a lot... when dealing with customs you want to have as much paperwork as possible.
The Americans will not let you bring a game into the USA that you may or may not sell - it either has to be Presold with invoice, proof of payment and customs import form (make three copies of it all) or you have to convince them that it will be coming back. You can fill out the customs form there.

Note that they will want the Social Security number of the US buyer and he will most likely not want to give it to you...

If you go the presold route it has to be valued at less than $2500USD otherwise they will make you get a commercial customs broker to clear it, they won't let you clear it yourself. I learned this the hard way.

If you try to bring it and convince them you will be bringing it back to Canada do not say that it is worth more than $1200 USD and show them printouts of the pinball event details, they more paper the better! Last time I did that I asked them if there were any official forms that would be applicable and they said no just bring info about the pinball show/event.

 

[mitch_a]

I've brought 3 games to the states, Didnt do any paperwork and just told them that i was bringing it for freeplay at a show, one asked why i would go to all the trouble and i just said if nobody brings a game there would be no show and he waved me through.