Buying a first pin.... Etiquette and moving?

[Chill]

As many of you know, I've been hunting for my first pin for nearly a year now. I've encountered a few challenges, upped my budget, and spoken to several of you for advice and help (which I appreciate greatly!).

I've got a couple of pins that I hope to look at in the next week or so. That said, I've got a couple of questions about the process of viewing and negotiating, as well as actually transporting it... Once I find one.

When going to look at a pin, if I go alone - any specific questions I should ask? Any common issues I should look for?

If I want to negotiate, is there any rule of thumb regarding making an offer? I'd hate to offend or look like a "newbie".

If the machine is the right one, is it expected to pay cash on the spot, leave a deposit, or just handshake and trust the seller?

Should you go expecting to leave with it? I don't own a van so I'll be renting one - if I rent one and its not the machine I want, I'm out a day's rental....

Lastly, when moving a pin, what's the best way to pack up, wrap, and safely move to and from a vehicle? I'm sure some of you could share some horror stories that I'd like to avoid!

Thanks and sorry for being long-winded.

 

[Vengeance]

Answers Below

As many of you know, I've been hunting for my first pin for nearly a year now. I've encountered a few challenges, upped my budget, and spoken to several of you for advice and help (which I appreciate greatly!).

I've got a couple of pins that I hope to look at in the next week or so. That said, I've got a couple of questions about the process of viewing and negotiating, as well as actually transporting it... Once I find one.

When going to look at a pin, if I go alone - any specific questions I should ask? Any common issues I should look for?

Really depends on the game as the are usually game specific issues to look for, but general stuff like wear or cracked ramps are universal so start with that, also just asking that the machine works as it should

If I want to negotiate, is there any rule of thumb regarding making an offer? I'd hate to offend or look like a "newbie".

Personally if I want to haggle on price rather then make an offer, I just ask if there is any wiggle room on the price, the seller can respond with yes or no and I can then deal with it accordingly and no one is offended

If the machine is the right one, is it expected to pay cash on the spot, leave a deposit, or just handshake and trust the seller?

Depends, if you know the person and they know you, handshake and I'll be back later is enough. If you don't expect to pay cash there and then and take it away there and then, otherwise no guarantees it doesn't get sold to the next guy that shows up with cash in hand

Should you go expecting to leave with it? I don't own a van so I'll be renting one - if I rent one and its not the machine I want, I'm out a day's rental....

Yes, if you know you want the game, no if your not sure and need to see it in person, but you risk losing out on the machine, see response above

Lastly, when moving a pin, what's the best way to pack up, wrap, and safely move to and from a vehicle? I'm sure some of you could share some horror stories that I'd like to avoid!

Fold the head, shrink wrap or strap it, take off the legs and then throw it in your vehicle. Also don't forget to remove the balls, and its not a bad idea to place some cardboard between the head and the side rails. Other then that if you want to be really safe, blanket wrap it so you don't damage the cabinet

Thanks and sorry for being long-winded.

 

[REVOLUTION]

You may have already posted this somewhere, but..

What pins were you looking for? What budget? The BEST piece of advice is to buy from a forum member (collector), we're all pretty experienced with our games and so in most cases you know what you're getting. Buying games off Kijiji can be hit or miss, sometimes it's someone looking to offload a game they don't know anything about!

Also depending on where you're buying from, a lot of us are willing to help you pick up your first game. I'm in Orangeville (not far from Guelph) and have a van

 

[Grauwulf]

Bring everything you're going to need to break it down and move it, don't expect the seller to supply anything. If you're hauling it out of a basement make sure it's going to fit up the stairs and through all doors *before* you even move it up a stair.

Stuff to bring with you;

Ratchet strap to hold the head down
9/16" wrench for head bolts
5/8" wrench for leg bolts
1/4" wrench or nut driver to take off the back box latch
Couple chunks of cardboard to protect the side rails from the head
Tape measure
Hand cart and ratchet strap if you desire one

 

[REVOLUTION]

n/m I saw your list / budget.

 

[Chill]

You may have already posted this somewhere, but..

What pins were you looking for? What budget? The BEST piece of advice is to buy from a forum member (collector), we're all pretty experienced with our games and so in most cases you know what you're getting. Buying games off Kijiji can be hit or miss, sometimes it's someone looking to offload a game they don't know anything about!

Also depending on where you're buying from, a lot of us are willing to help you pick up your first game. I'm in Orangeville (not far from Guelph) and have a van

Budget is still around $2500 - I've got my "wish list" but I'm willing to consider almost anything fairly modern (not interested in older machines, wedgeheads, etc.).

I'd absolutely pay someone for their time, gas, etc. if they were willing to help a first-timer out!

 

[mwong168]

When going to look at a pin, if I go alone - any specific questions I should ask? Any common issues I should look for?

I would ask the seller if he is able to assist moving the pinball out or if you should bring a friend or if he is able to arrange some help the day you are coming down to look at and potentially buy the game. Perhaps ask him if he has a dolly or if one can even be used?

If I want to negotiate, is there any rule of thumb regarding making an offer? I'd hate to offend or look like a "newbie".

Typically if the seller is motivated he would have taken enough pictures to give you clear indication of the game's condition. If there is any doubt or you want a close up or specific picture or angle they should be willing to entertain as long as you know what you are looking for. The best you can do after this is ask if there is some flexibility in the seller's price and worse that can happen is he can politely decline and say he is firm.

You should also do your research and ask around to see what fair market value is or what the last few have sold for to get an idea if you are overpaying or not. It is best to come to some sort of agreement on price assuming everything is as described and pictured since you have more to lose in this case given that you have to make arrangements to rent a van and drive a long way.

If the machine is the right one, is it expected to pay cash on the spot, leave a deposit, or just handshake and trust the seller?

Should you go expecting to leave with it? I don't own a van so I'll be renting one - if I rent one and its not the machine I want, I'm out a day's rental....

If you can pick it up the same day then you pay cash on the spot and if not I would leave a small deposit. At this point you already knows where he lives and been in his home and I don't think it is worth the headache for anyone to worry or have to look over their shoulder by burning someone over a $200-300 deposit. In terms of being out a day's rental that is the chance you take and sometimes shit happens. I've heard stories of friends who drove 5-6 hours to Quebec only to come back empty handed because the machine they were interested in was not as described or didn't work.

Lastly, when moving a pin, what's the best way to pack up, wrap, and safely move to and from a vehicle? I'm sure some of you could share some horror stories that I'd like to avoid!

I think in your case you should be fine because the seller has been around and probably moved his fair share of pins. Important things to remember are:

1) remove the balls from the game before folding it up
2) when folding the head put a piece of thick cardboard or few rags/towels between the head and siderails so they don't get damaged during the move
3) shrink wrap the game to save you from scratching and scuffing it up. a roll of shrink wrap is $10-15 but cab decals are $250-300 plus the labour of preparing and apply new decals too
4) don't forget the keys for the coin door or head
5) if you are using a pick up truck, never transport a pinball with the legs on because this could happen

Good luck and let us know once you bring your first pin home!

 

[domino]

Good to know. Any alternatives to strapping the backbox? Would rope be sufficient?

 

[Honey Badger]

Would rope be sufficient?

No

 

[Grauwulf]

You could use stretch wrap to secure the head. I don't advise it though personally, but I know lots of people do it.

 

[Pinhead]

That pinbot in the picture above looks like someone dismantled it. That would have been beat to F if it fell out of a truck. The head is the first thing to explode. Think about it.

I have been moving pins with the legs on for over 27 years and if you fold/remove the head and tie it down, you are good. I have the head rip off of a Williams Comet when it was new because the had weak/poorly made cabinets back then and the head was in the erect position ( oops...My bad).

I still move my pins with the legs on in a pickup but I fold the head. Never had a problem with this method. I have moved pins over a thousand times, so I know from experience.

Just a couple of facts. Sorry to hyjack the thread.

 

[mwong168]

That pinbot in the picture above looks like someone dismantled it. That would have been beat to F if it fell out of a truck. The head is the first thing to explode. Think about it.

If that doesn't look beat to F then I don't know what does to you

link: http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ ... ost-208950

My Pinbot was loaded w/ leg's on too, it Slide out & took a Backward's Barrel roll in the ditch & Exploded..

Pinbot pic from above is a true story and it was a pretty hot and heartbreaking topic over a year ago on pinside. Someone scored a nice HUO LOTR for $3000 off craigslist and his friend didn't take the time to strap it properly and it went flying off 250 yards from where they picked it up doing 5mph. Luckily the owner was able to source out a new cab and had Chad Kellar do the swap and restore. In the end the buyer still got a great deal but it could have been one his best scores but at least he had a happy ending.

 

[mwong168]

You could use stretch wrap to secure the head. I don't advise it though personally, but I know lots of people do it.

As long as you are generous with the wrap you should be fine using it to secure the head.

 

[Honey Badger]

Geez Mike, how come you weren't that generous with the wrap on my pin?...the wrap shredded on the bottom of my van and the head flew open when unloading (luckily I caught it with my knee and strapped it) :? It scared the shit out of me! :lol:

 

[stiffler4444]

shrink wrap is what I use for moving pins. I have actually used it to secure a pin to my moving dolly to bring it up the stairs. I'd trust that shit over straps any day...plus it leaves no marks.

 

[bstock]

5) if you are using a pick up truck, never transport a pinball with the legs on...

Considering it takes almost no effort, and a total of perhaps 5 minutes to remove the legs from a game, I've never understood the logic behind NOT removing the legs for transport.

 

[mwong168]

Geez Mike, how come you weren't that generous with the wrap on my pin?...the wrap shredded on the bottom of my van and the head flew open when unloading (luckily I caught it with my knee and strapped it) :? It scared the shit out of me! :lol:

Sorry to hear that Jason but the reason why I wasn't so generous on the wrap was because it wasn't a Bally/Williams

Considering it takes almost no effort, and a total of perhaps 5 minutes to remove the legs from a game, I've never understood the logic behind NOT removing the legs for transport.

I could see it being convenient for operators who are moving a game from one ground location to another. But having the legs off makes it easier to manipulate the machine to fit around narrow hallway corners and moving up/down stairs. Anyways, I think there is enough good advice here for Chill to read through and follow.

 

[TwilightZone]

Good advice so far.

One piece of advice is dead wrong. Shrink wrap is never enough to wrap the head. I've had the heads come lose on a couple of games. The problem with the shrink wrap is it gets ripped when putting the game in the van/truck. If the tear is large enough, the shrink wrap will give. Always use a strap.

Brock suggested you buy from a collector and that's excellent advice. With someone known in the PinRev and/or MAACA, you know they will take great care to ensure your first game is a good experience.

KIJIJI, etc. is a crap shot. "Do you feel lucky?" Sometimes you will get a good deal, but they will always need work. And the amount of work varies big time. Also, people can "fix" a game so it works....until you load it in the truck LOL!

Your budget is reasonable. There was a GetAway for $2,500, for example. Fun game. Assuming condition is good, that's a great game for your budget. I'm sure there will be others as well in your budget as well.

Cheers,
Duane

 

[Chris Bardon]

I usually use a ratchet strap to secure the head, and cardboard to protect the corners/siderails, and then I'll usually shrink wrap on top of that, more to have a layer to protect the cabinet than to hold the head down. I'd rather take a few more minutes to pack things up than have something fail. Also, one other thing to check besides making sure that the balls are removed is that there isn't anything else rattling around loose in the bottom of the cabinet. There's the obvious stuff, like the coin box, but extra bolts, screwdrivers, and other things can sometimes find their way in there, and you don't want to damage anything else when moving. I'll also do things like remove the backbox latch on WPC games, but that's mostly to get rid of a sharp edge that can tear walls, fingers/carpets.

Other than that, unless you know for sure what you're getting into, come prepared. The only time I don't bother bringing my dolly and tools for example is if I'm buying a game from someone who I know already has the right stuff.

 

[mwong168]

I'll also do things like remove the backbox latch on WPC games, but that's mostly to get rid of a sharp edge that can tear walls, fingers/carpets.

Good call Chris and I usually remove the backbox latch too because there will be times you will slide your game on the floor. One other thing I always check on the back of a cabinet for is these 4 nylon nubs to see if they are all there. If they are missing I make sure there is no protruding nail left or else I pull it out to avoid scratching the floor.