Fireball Classic Down

[Koplings]

My bally fireball classic remains down (only GI, mpu green light solid with no flashing on power up)

I've installed a new power supply board and new alltek universal mpu board but it remains down. Awhile back it had an intermittent reset problem before it died and now all i can get is the GI. replacing these two boards didn't fix the problem so I'm guessing the only thing left to do is see if the solenoid driver board is the problem. Before I shell out more money on yet another board, is there any one in the southwestern Ontario area that could help diagnose if the solenoid driver board is indeed the problem and/or repair it? Any guidance or tips would be helpful

I'm not an electronics guy and this (thankfully) is my only solid state machine...the rest are EM's and maybe I should keep it that way o

(PS - I just noticed that connector J3 on the solenoid driver board is gone altogether; looks like the previous owner must have wired those wires directly to the back of the board so I'm really reluctant to pull it off if that's not the ultimate real problem. Also noted that it still has the original big capacitors on it)

 

[sylvain]

If the original MPU board has some corrosion around its battery (center bottom of the board), it might explain the
intermittent reset problems with that original board, given that the reset circuit is in the same location (left of the battery).

Do you have a multimeter ?
To troubleshoot this no-boot issue, you need to confirm if the +5V supply arrives to the MPU first.
I assume you already checked the fuses on the power supply/rectifier board.

If no +5V measured on the MPU, check if the solenoid driver board supplies it by measuring the DC voltage on the Solenoid Driver board:
- TP5 should read approx. +12V compared to ground;
- TP1 should read very close to +5V (between 4.8 and 5.2 volts).

If you have nothing on TP5, you need to check the wiring between the Solenoid Driver board and the power supply, and the new power supply board itself (and fuses).
If TP5 reads OK, but TP1 completely wrong, chances are that the Solenoid driver board is defective. Unfortunate bypass hack on the J3 connector will cause board repair or removal/replacement difficult.
If TP1 reads the +5V OK, but this voltage does not get to the MPU, then some 0.100 Molex pins inside the J4 connector on the MPU are probably corroded or broken and need to be replaced.

Conclusion: It is always a good exercise to measure & confirm voltages before replacing boards, as board replacement unfortunately never addresses wiring harness or connector/pins issues...

Good luck!

Cheers,
-Sylvain.

 

[Koplings]

ok thanks - sounds like I have my work out for me but at least I now have a plan of attack...this is greatly appreciated!

 

[Koplings]

Ok, I went out and got a multimeter and here's what I've found

Solenoid Driver Board:
TP5 - 10.7
TP1 - 4.25

MPU
TP5 - 4.1
TP1 - 4.1

I've been doing a bit of reading and does this mean the mpu board is not getting enough power from the Solenoid driver board to start the boot program?

I pulled the solenoid driver board and the back of it doesn't look too good (i.e. some brown spots on the back around the capacitor and of course some not so great looking solder around where J3 was removed and hacked on the back. I Is it worth sending the solenoid board away to have it tested and replaced (i.e. do you think I am back to the solonoid board being the problem or should I do some more digging?). I took some pictures but i'm not sure what the rules on this board are for sending that type of thing and I also don't want to bother you. I am posting all this because I thought someone else might benefit from this thread/discussion in the future.

 

[Grauwulf]

Also check your fuse clips at your power supply, they are notorious for being tarnished, cold solder joints, or weak tension. Or all 3.

 

[sylvain]

Are you sure the measured voltages are accurate, for the Solenoid Driver Board:
TP5 - 10.7
(that is with the multimeter set to DC volts, black lead on the ground test point, and red lead on TP5 on the solenoid driver board ? (this measure should give a reading above +12V when all is OK).

The problem with your machine is with the J3 wires directly soldered to the solenoid driver board - meaning that you are missing the original J3 connector in the machine,
and removing and reinstalling the board (by unsoldering all those wires and resoldering them) is not a real solution - sending the board away for repairs will not fix your missing J3 connector.

If the reading was done correctly for TP5 on the solenoid driver board, indeed it is too low and the issue would be upstream, or it could be a bad filter capacitor (C23) on the solenoid driver board.
If upstream, check the DC voltage at the power supply/rectifier board. TP3 on the original board should read over +12V DC compared to ground (not sure the replacement board uses the same test points).

As mentioned above by Grauwulf, fuse clips or connectors (or cold solder joints under the board) are sometimes causing issues lowering the supplied voltage.

Cheers,
- Sylvain,

 

[Grauwulf]

Also the headers and pins at the power supply as well. You're going to have to start at the boards and work back to the power supply. I suspect that you're not getting the proper voltage in to the driver board to be regulated in to your 5v.

 

[Koplings]

Re: Fireball Classic WAS Down -Now UP!

FIREBALL CLASSIC UP!!!

Ina the winner is C23...

Long story short, I was just about to give up and go drown my sorrows and then I replaced the capacitor on C23 on the solenoid driver board as a last ditch effort and I'm back up and running! My wife would probably like to see all my machines go to the dump but that's a story for another day...

You guys have been incredible helpful and anytime you happen to be in waterloo you now have a new friend you can visit and play some old school pinball

So it probably hasn't taken you long to surmise the cost differential between the new capacitor and the new ultimate mpu board and new power supply board I previously bought.

One last piece of advice from you guys, should I put the old original boards back in and save the new ones for a rainy day? Is there any benefit to leaving the ultimate mpu board in, other than the freeplay option?.

Alternatively, is there a way I can pay your help forward by donating the old (working) boards to someone who could use them (I guess I'm saying would any one who helped me along the way here on this thread want them?)

I guess also that hack on the solenoid driver board will eventually get me someday but I suppose today is not the day...

 

[Grauwulf]

I guess it comes down to personal preference. I prefer to have original boards in most cases unless the originals are problematic by design, i.e. GTB SYS1. If your original mpu is in good shape and corrosion free, keep it in the machine. Keep the alltek as a backup, or sell it and recoup most of your money. Just my opinion.