High Speed trouble shooting advice

[VA3AVP]

Ok guys I am getting many things solved in my current new pin High speed. So far new power supply , new ribbon set, new pin score display, new auxiliary sound board, new sound roms (not game roms but there on the way)

The game is starting to play very well but here are the last two game play issues I believe I need to tackle-

1- the red siren lights on the playfield (the four of them) do not come on at all all four of them. I believe all fuses are new and good. Are these lights controlled by the automotive style relays under the playfield? I replaced one that was actually missing and I believe it brought back some flashing lights on the playfield. all other lighting appears to be working fine.

second issue - after hitting all the targets and escaping from the police if I get a pinball in each hideout on both sides of the game the game plays some great music but does not seem to know what to do. It should launch the third ball for the three ball multi action but it does not it will never launch the third ball. after a few minutes delay then the game looks for a pinball and launches one or both out of the hideouts. I have a feeling my right hideout switch might be bad but not sure.
everytime the game starts on a new power up the right hideout tries to launch a ball out four times before it starts in attract mode. Not sure why it is doing this left side hideout does not do this so this makes me think maybe that is a bad switch?

Anyone with a high speed or experience with one have any thoughts? The system 11 board on power is showing a 0 so if what I have read is correct this is a code for no errors?

there is also a relay missing for top siren assembly marco is sending me all those parts so my other thought is are the other sirens on the playfield wired into the siren on the game backboard with the relay that is missing rite now? just waiting for package.

 

[DRANO]

I own and have rebuilt a HS. I don't profess to be an expert on system 11 but your hideout issue certainly sounds like a bad switch. The hideouts actually have 2 switches each I think.

A very easy way to test that theory is to put the game into test mode and advance through the various tests until you get to the switches. The manual will explain how to do that. Any closed switches will show up on the displays. Just refer to the switch number charts to see which ones are closed. Remove all balls or the trough switches will read as closed. If all switches are good and open, you should get no number. Also look for busted wires going to those switches.

As for the 'siren lights'. Which ones are you referring to? If they are linked together it could be a broken wire or connector issue. Lights don't usually fail in groups otherwise... or you could have a lamp matrix problem. I don't think the top siren has any connection but, again, I'm not an expert.

Replacing boards will only get you so far.

Good luck.

 

[VA3AVP]

I own and have rebuilt a HS. I don't profess to be an expert on system 11 but your hideout issue certainly sounds like a bad switch. The hideouts actually have 2 switches each I think.

A very easy way to test that theory is to put the game into test mode and advance through the various tests until you get to the switches. The manual will explain how to do that. Any closed switches will show up on the displays. Just refer to the switch number charts to see which ones are closed. Remove all balls or the trough switches will read as closed. If all switches are good and open, you should get no number. Also look for busted wires going to those switches.

As for the 'siren lights'. Which ones are you referring to? If they are linked together it could be a broken wire or connector issue. Lights don't usually fail in groups otherwise... or you could have a lamp matrix problem. I don't think the top siren has any connection but, again, I'm not an expert.

Replacing boards will only get you so far.

Good luck.

Thanks Drano when you get the big flashing lights kind of near the middle of the playfield when you accomplish a task the lights with the bigger flash bulbs then the rest of the playfield has. When I got the high speed those were not working I noticed someone had put the wrong kind of relay under the playfield in place of the automotive style. I replaced it with the correct automotive style relay and those lights are working now. I did not do anything else so I am guessing those relays have something to do with some of the lights but I don't know for sure just a guess - I'm not a super tec guy but I will get the game fixed its a keeper . So I just wondered if another relay was bad or maybe loose wire somewhere was preventing those big lights on playfield (the ones with the red siren lens on all four of them) from working. I had half the left playfield standard illumination lights out when I first got the game and that turned out to be a bad 5 amp slow blow fuse that still looked good. Thank God that problem fixed

 

[VA3AVP]

also on the testing buttons inside the coin box there not responding correctly when I press advance I can only get a music test - I cant scroll through any other options- it only allowed me to scroll through once when I was moving some wires around but can't seem to repeat that one time. I am looking for a new 3 button coin box switch but they appear to be sold out everywhere at this time.

 

[sylvain]

Do you have the game manual? It makes troubleshooting easier. I prefer original printed manuals when possible.
www.ipdb.org has a scan of the game manual if you search for High Speed. Unfortunately it does not appear to include the flash lamps circuit/resistor boards...

The flash lamps on the playfield are not controlled by individual relays, but by the MPU/driver board (individual drive transistors), as solenoids. You need to go to Solenoid test to test them individually as part of the Solenoids tests.

There are terminal strips near the flash bulbs sockets under the playfield - with one or two power resistors each soldered-in.
These resistors are often burned and need to be replaced with beefier replacements (e.g. same value in ohms, but bigger/more watts dissipation). Make sure your flash bulbs are of the proper type (#63).
Often two bulbs are in-series for one circuit (the ones near the slings, blue and red inserts if I remember correctly), and if one is burned both do not work on the one side.

As indicated by Drano, replacing boards often does not solve all pinball issues - and is very expensive and not necessarily a good investment.
There are usually other things to look for first (wiring/soldering/connectors/previous hacks, etc.).
The good news is that there is a lot of info available now on the web with regards to pinball troubleshooting and repairs...

Good luck!
- Sylvain.

 

[sylvain]

also on the testing buttons inside the coin box there not responding correctly when I press advance I can only get a music test - I cant scroll through any other options- it only allowed me to scroll through once when I was moving some wires around but can't seem to repeat that one time. I am looking for a new 3 button coin box switch but they appear to be sold out everywhere at this time.

Look closely at the wiring on these diagnostic switches inside the cash door - is there a wire that is broken-off now?
Can it be re-soldered-on, or do you actually need new switches?

 

[VA3AVP]

Do you have the game manual? It makes troubleshooting easier. I prefer original printed manuals when possible.
www.ipdb.org has a scan of the game manual if you search for High Speed. Unfortunately it does not appear to include the flash lamps circuit/resistor boards...

The flash lamps on the playfield are not controlled by individual relays, but by the MPU/driver board (individual drive transistors), as solenoids. You need to go to Solenoid test to test them individually as part of the Solenoids tests.

There are terminal strips near the flash bulbs sockets under the playfield - with one or two power resistors each soldered-in.
These resistors are often burned and need to be replaced with beefier replacements (e.g. same value in ohms, but bigger/more watts dissipation). Make sure your flash bulbs are of the proper type (#63).
Often two bulbs are in-series for one circuit (the ones near the slings, blue and red inserts if I remember correctly), and if one is burned both do not work on the one side.

As indicated by Drano, replacing boards often does not solve all pinball issues - and is very expensive and not necessarily a good investment.
There are usually other things to look for first (wiring/soldering/connectors/previous hacks, etc.).
The good news is that there is a lot of info available now on the web with regards to pinball troubleshooting and repairs...

Good luck!
- Sylvain.

Thank you have the manual printed out but some pages appear to be missing I have downloaded it into my computer - great info on the lights I do have one big bulb very top left corner that is also out . Would have thought that was part of the general lamination circuit but makes sense what your saying about in series. I will have to check those resistors and see what would be needed for replacement.
thank you for the help

 

[VA3AVP]

Look closely at the wiring on these diagnostic switches inside the cash door - is there a wire that is broken-off now?
Can it be re-soldered-on, or do you actually need new switches?

found loose wire re soldered seems to be working now a little finicky but working

 

[VA3AVP]

Do you have the game manual? It makes troubleshooting easier. I prefer original printed manuals when possible.
www.ipdb.org has a scan of the game manual if you search for High Speed. Unfortunately it does not appear to include the flash lamps circuit/resistor boards...

The flash lamps on the playfield are not controlled by individual relays, but by the MPU/driver board (individual drive transistors), as solenoids. You need to go to Solenoid test to test them individually as part of the Solenoids tests.

There are terminal strips near the flash bulbs sockets under the playfield - with one or two power resistors each soldered-in.
These resistors are often burned and need to be replaced with beefier replacements (e.g. same value in ohms, but bigger/more watts dissipation). Make sure your flash bulbs are of the proper type (#63).
Often two bulbs are in-series for one circuit (the ones near the slings, blue and red inserts if I remember correctly), and if one is burned both do not work on the one side.

As indicated by Drano, replacing boards often does not solve all pinball issues - and is very expensive and not necessarily a good investment.
There are usually other things to look for first (wiring/soldering/connectors/previous hacks, etc.).
The good news is that there is a lot of info available now on the web with regards to pinball troubleshooting and repairs...

Good luck!
- Sylvain.

 

[VA3AVP]

Ok so got a switch test and sure enough there are no balls in play so I am guessing this is telling me these two switches are in the closed position somehow?

 

[DRANO]

There you go. Looks like the lower hideout switch is suspect (there is also another one that comes from the side of the metal guide). Lift the playfield. The switch may simply be stuck closed. It's probably an older style leaf. If the leaves are touching gently pry them apart but still close enough to meet when the switch arm is down. Also check that the switch tabs at the back of the switch where the wires attach aren't in contact. Looks like you should do the same for the ball trough switches. That's probably why the game won't kick out the 3rd ball... It's not reading it. It knows when balls in position 2 and 3 are there, but not the 1st position (right). The kicking from the hideout on game start is obviously separate and related to the other switch error... which is telling the game something is in the hideout.

As Sylvain stated, the flashers under your "hot dog" inserts are often linked in series. I'm assuming those are the ones you were referring too. And, they are certainly under a higher voltage than GI or controlled lamps. The game treats them as solenoids (just like coils) just as he said. And, as such are controlled via transistors.

So, check bulbs are correct, check wiring and connections are good and then you can test via solenoid test.

If your test buttons are giving you problems again, there is a chance the buttons themselves are getting corroded or worn inside. In a pinch you can gently make contact with the two wire leads under the button with a screwdriver. At least until you can find a replacement.

Sounds like you're on your way and lots of good advice from Sylvain. I don't think there's anything he can't fix

 

[VA3AVP]

There you go. Looks like the lower hideout switch is suspect (there is also another one that comes from the side of the metal guide). Lift the playfield. The switch may simply be stuck closed. It's probably an older style leaf. If the leaves are touching gently pry them apart but still close enough to meet when the switch arm is down. Also check that the switch tabs at the back of the switch where the wires attach aren't in contact. Looks like you should do the same for the ball trough switches. That's probably why the game won't kick out the 3rd ball... It's not reading it. It knows when balls in position 2 and 3 are there, but not the 1st position (right). The kicking from the hideout on game start is obviously separate and related to the other switch error... which is telling the game something is in the hideout.

As Sylvain stated, the flashers under your "hot dog" inserts are often linked in series. I'm assuming those are the ones you were referring too. And, they are certainly under a higher voltage than GI or controlled lamps. The game treats them as solenoids (just like coils) just as he said. And, as such are controlled via transistors.

So, check bulbs are correct, check wiring and connections are good and then you can test via solenoid test.

If your test buttons are giving you problems again, there is a chance the buttons themselves are getting corroded or worn inside. In a pinch you can gently make contact with the two wire leads under the button with a screwdriver. At least until you can find a replacement.

Sounds like you're on your way and lots of good advice from Sylvain. I don't think there's anything he can't fix

Thank you your post just now was VERY helpful I think I will get this all sorted out. However a pinball place told me the lower hideout switches are discontinued so should I need to replace the switch I am looking for a substitute obviously with a little bending that might be required. I know the lower hideout switch has a what looks like a ground wire off the back prong with a diode on it.

 

[VA3AVP]

I found a loose screw on the right hide out switch (bad ground)I was tightening it when I arched the switch on something for a split second feeling very stupid should have turned machine off.
I found one single blown fuse near the bottom of the back box replaced it all other fuses look ok but I will take a closer look again. Now I have no reading from right hand hideout switch and both upper ramp switches they all worked fine before just hideout was stuck on and I found the problem was the ground. So now I am not sure if I am missing a fuse somewhere and have to take a closer look or if I fried a transistor or something that controls those three switches!!! ODD left hideout works fine ..
I should have turned the machine off would have had the problem fixed..ugggg

spinner switches not working either no response so either a fuse or something else a chain reaction

 

[DRANO]

That sucks. Yeah... never a good idea to work with metal tools on a powered game

You may have taken out a whole column of the switch matrix.



You can see that column 6 has ramp switches along with both right hideout switches and tilt and all the spinners. Test all of those. They seem to trace back to Q47 on the board.

Also, my earlier info was bad. These are obviously the larger Cherry push button micro switches (not leaf switches as mentioned earlier). I'm sure you can find them. Maybe just not from Marcos. Either way, sounded like you just needed to adjust it. Too bad about the short.

Live and learn.

 

[VA3AVP]

That sucks. Yeah... never a good idea to work with metal tools on a powered game

You may have taken out a whole column of the switch matrix.

View attachment 7424

You can see that column 6 has ramp switches along with both right hideout switches and tilt and all the spinners. Test all of those. They seem to trace back to Q47 on the board.

Also, my earlier info was bad. These are obviously the larger Cherry push button micro switches (not leaf switches as mentioned earlier). I'm sure you can find them. Maybe just not from Marcos. Either way, sounded like you just needed to adjust it. Too bad about the short.

Live and learn.

Yes Sir I truly am a noob well I am less lost then I was 2 minutes ago thanks to your information this is exactly what has happened.

 

[VA3AVP]

hmm tilt still works but I see a dark area around a transistor and a diode on the board I never saw before looks like its beside Q77 cant see the number its black assuming it is Q76 and diode Q74 looks a little black around it...oh boy

 

[DRANO]

Is this the original board or a repro?
If original, the darkness can also be from an older issue that has been repaired already. Never assume. If it was recently 'cooked' there's a good chance it'll smell like it

There are easy processes for testing a transistor with a digital multimeter if you've got one and know how to use it?

Q77 looks like it drives one of the pop bumpers and Q76 looks like the pre-driver for that transistor.
If the upper left pop bumper works that's not your culprit

 

[VA3AVP]

Is this the original board or a repro?
If original, the darkness can also be from an older issue that has been repaired already. Never assume. If it was recently 'cooked' there's a good chance it'll smell like it

There are easy processes for testing a transistor with a digital multimeter if you've got one and know how to use it?

Q77 looks like it drives one of the pop bumpers and Q76 looks like the pre-driver for that transistor.
If the upper left pop bumper works that's not your culprit

ok no burning smell good point it is the original board ROTTEN Dog told me there is one company that made a reproduction system 11 board but not him. I have a Rotten dog system 11b-c brand new board as a spare for my Whirlwind Jim from Rotten dog assured me it cant be used in high speed system 11 only if my highspeed was a system 11B but its not..bummer

 

[DRANO]

Yeah, original sys11 boards are in short supply. They only work for HS, grand Lizard and a couple of others I think.

My guess is that's an old repair and testing out the pop bumpers after starting a game will tell if that's the case. Also, solenoid power is capable of burning a board. I don't think a short on the switch matrix would necessarily leave a physical scorch... but I'm not an expert.

Find Q47. It's at the top middle of the board just below connector J8. I can't seem to find the part # in the manual or I could tell you how to test it.

 

[VA3AVP]

Yeah, original sys11 boards are in short supply. They only work for HS, grand Lizard and a couple of others I think.

My guess is that's an old repair and testing out the pop bumpers after starting a game will tell if that's the case. Also, solenoid power is capable of burning a board. I don't think a short on the switch matrix would necessarily leave a physical scorch... but I'm not an expert.

Find Q47. It's at the top middle of the board just below connector J8. I can't seem to find the part # in the manual or I could tell you how to test it.

I found it I think I need a battery for my muli meter going to look for it