HOUDINI or JPOP, who's the real escape artist?

[DRANO]

I'm sure many of you have already been on the Pinside threads.
I figured I would open up the dicussion here for any who hadn't.

Hell, let's take a vote!!

As a buyer on RAZA and someone that JPOP swindled more than $6K USD from I'm not sure how I feel about this latest twist in the MG/RAZA/AIW saga... but I guess I paid my money and took my chances and have definitely paid for the right to comment.

I first heard of this latest "American Pinball' venture via a private FB group for owners (read: victims) of the aforementioned projects and just blew it off as another squirm tactic from John to get back in the game and try to flee legal action. Then AP announces that MG owners will first be made whole and even that some of them will start to get their machines by expo in a few short weeks... and even went as far as to state that they were also working on RAZA in future.

So... is this just a stall tactic? Are they just looking to take care of a few token customers for PR purposes while leaving the vast majority of us out in the cold? And why would this company try and bail out JPOP if he were not the one pulling the strings in the background? Questions abound!

Last night it appears that American Pinball has unveiled their new Houdini game... but to what end?
Will anyone buy this in light of JPOP's recent history? Is this just another 'mock up' machine that doesn't really work and has no code?

Curious to hear opinions from other people (those robbed and those with no skin in the game) on how they perceive this latest move and a company that has obviously used much of the R&D money that myself and others have paid towards developing yet another incomplete machine.

I'm just waiting for the words "Houdini pre-order" to be uttered at Expo




Here are some pics taken at the recent reveal in Las Vegas.

 

[BMHouze]

I would suggest potential buyers band together and use escrow.
For a small fee I am sure many a lawyer would come forward to hold funds until 100% working machines are delivered.
With the companys history I couldn't deal with them.
The BreX of pinball

 

[a.stebel]

Soon as it is for sale at Starburst, give 'er a play. If it shoots well - will consider a purchase. From the limited pictures it looks really nice. I like the theme as well. Game feature descriptions are interesting and sound quite innovative.

Following the development quite closely.

Hope the MG game gets made as well. Absolutely loved the art work on that one. Want a translite for the wall!!

 

[DRANO]

Soon as it is for sale at Starburst, give 'er a play. If it shoots well - will consider a purchase. From the limited pictures it looks really nice. I like the theme as well. Game feature descriptions are interesting and sound quite innovative.

Following the development quite closely.

Hope the MG game gets made as well. Absolutely loved the art work on that one. Want a translite for the wall!!

Or.... you can send an email to them and secure your place in line today!!!!


Suggested retail: $6995

Contact: Scott Goldberg,
Sales@American-Pinball.com


Many people are suspecting that this is a zizzle-esque type of setup where the vast majority of the machine will be made in china and entire playfields just dropped into awaiting US based cabinets.

Considering Stern's quality control as of late, I guess that may not be such a bad thing and the pricing doesn't appear to be out of line with the new market.

Even though I was screwed on RAZA I would love to see one of these at SB. I won't be holding my breath.... but I guess we'll see.

 

[a.stebel]

Everyone is suggesting it is a pre-order payment model. There is no mention of that. I expect they will do a production run and sell, just like the other companies.

I know it's early on but they have come out of nowhere and quietly. The Internet detectives have done some digging and it looks like American Pinball is not a basement company. AP has partnered with a more established company in the business world (with money).

As for China made. Let's wait and see what comes of it. Can't be any worse than the GB playfields from Stern at the moment.

 

[BMHouze]

After being burned once you may as well skip the preorder and pay a little more once the preorders are shipped and feedback starts rolling in.
Woz while being quite a step in the right direction still had some problems with early production models.
Just gives you a little more time to do a few flips for the extra money.
It could give them time to get a Canadian distributor.

 

[Fifty]

Not a fucking chance until I see the machine and even then I want the pin loaded in the back of my truck as my money hits their hands. This is a theme I can get behind, but fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again... Fuckin' George Bush fucked up that quote for me forever...

 

[Luckydogg420]

It will be many years before I buy another nib pin, but I think I'd stay away from anything Jpop touched. This whole situation just rubbed me the wrong way, and I didn't loose any money on pre orders.

If everyone that was screwed on MG and RAZA is made right then I might feel different, but there's so many other great games available that I don't need to support his work.

These 3 games look interesting, but the situation is so messed up that only time will tell if I ever find them worth while.

 

[Menace]

Pre-order? Hell NO.
Purchase NIB - Nope.
Purchase used - *Maybe*

I say maybe because it would all depend on how the original fiasco has been handled since AP took over the reigns. If the original MG/RAZA/AIW owners are somehow made whole (which I just cannot see happening strictly from a financial standpoint) then I could justify supporting the AP efforts.

D

 

[cdnpinballer]

Seriously? A Houdini game being worked on by JPOP? LOL! That is hillarious! He'll make your pre-order deposit vanish!

 

[DRANO]

Well, I'm definitely in the "rubbed the wrong way" category on this.
Sure, these guys may produce machines, they may even get them to market without the use of pre-orders, but there's one key thing that bugs me... setting aside their association with JPOP.

You may not have been burned on previous dealings with JPOP and yes, you may walk into SB and see a Houdini on display in the near future.
But, just remember that (unless they reach resolution with every last MG/RAZA/AIW buyer) these guys are still thieves in my book.

From cabinet design to hardware and probably the operating platform and many other items, Houdini appears to be built on the framework that JPOP spent years developing with my money and the money of other supporters. So sleep well at night with your Houdini in your game room. It's quick development wasn't by accident and it comes at a cost greater than $6995 US... built on the backs of your fellow pinheads. Enjoy!


Also, lets face it, looking at this design.... is there anything here that is THAT awesome?
Looks like a pretty typical JPOP design to me. Maybe the code will be great (this time)

 

[Luckydogg420]

I totally forgot about Alice in wonderland. Did they pre sell them also? I thought it was just an artwork mock-up

 

[mwong168]

 

[DRANO]

I totally forgot about Alice in wonderland. Did they pre sell them also? I thought it was just an artwork mock-up

All of his games were just artwork mock-ups.
JPOP definitely took money for AIW.
He probably realized the rabbit hole he was going down (pun intended) and started feverishly pumping out new themes and promises of new games to basically fund his company and infrastructure.

Sure, he may have almost gotten to a completed Magic Girl game.... but it was the glut of RAZA and AIW pre-orders that allowed that to happen... not the 16 original buyers who ponied up for the first few Magic Girl pins.

It was a pretty elaborate pyramid scheme.
So, if any of you MG owners actually receive your machine as promised... you're welcome!

 

[mwong168]

 

[mwong168]

 

[mwong168]

 

[Chris Bardon]

So Jpop brought empty cabinets, so these guys brought playfields without cabinets?

 

[Fifty]

I hate myself for liking this.

 

[a.stebel]

Looks great. It is far along and looks like it could be to the coding stage. Cabinet production is easy, Jpop proved that the first time around.

Can't wait til its ready!