How much have you learned over what period of time?

[frolic]

This is a spin-off from some discussion in the container thread about how how much you've learned about fixing pinball machines, and how long did it take you to learn what you know?

In the context of a container pin, there is no way I could personally get in on one of those at this time.

I've owned pins for about 5 months, in that time I've:

-added some mods to my games
-cleaned with novus 1,2
-waxed with carnuba
-swapped lights to LEDs
-bent switches to trigger again
-replaced some cosmetic things (new trunk on my TOM, new Bally's decal, new slingshot plastics).
-I've removed the head of a machine, labelled all the connections, then reassembled.


I have not done any soldering. I could not take a machine that was not working and make it work. I could not "shop" a pin, or remove the playfield and strip it down.

I think I'm doing OK for someone new to all this with no background in these types of things, I'll continue to learn, but not sure when I'd ever be ready for a container pin.

If you've shopped a game, how long did it take you before you took on something like that? What other big tasks have you taken on at what time? What level of experience do you think one would need before taking on a container pin?

 

[Vengeance]

Chris the best thing you could ever do is plunge in and do it.

Take one of your working games, take it apart, take lots of pictures and you will learn a ton.

Soldering is also REALLY simple, just pickup a soldering iron and start learning, it's REALLY hard to screw up soldering on a coil or a switch, the worst you are going to do is burn the insulation on the other wires if you are not careful. The only real difficult work for soldering is board solder work, I wouldn't attempt that without having someone instruct you on how to do it properly.

Container games are a crap shoot and it why they are priced the way they are.

I bought a CFTBL and overall the condition was very good, it's not playable but there is nothing not working, everything just needs a good shop job.

Then I bought a Dr Who and that game is a basket case, it's been even really hard for me to figure it out, I think I've made some head way but I still have a long way to go.

But I don't see any reason that as an example you couldn't take my CFTBL and get it working as the stuff wrong with it is minor.

But that is the risk you take, you never not what you are going to get, so as long as you are willing to risk maybe getting a machine you can't handle and having to dump it for less then you paid after shipping and everything else, then go for it.

I plan to hopefully finish up my Centaur restore this week and then tackle my CFTBL. If you and Robin are interested, you could come up for the day and watch as I tear down CFTBL, no better way to learn then that.

 

[Menace]

Chris,

As long as you have basic mechanical ability, you're more than halfway there. Taking stuff apart, and putting it all back together with some cleaning in between is all a shop job is. I personally find it therapeutic, but I'm crazy like that.

Soldering coils and switches and targets are straight forward as Adam mentioned. The one thing I cannot stress enough with PCB work is to leave it to people that know what they are doing. I've had to clean up more PCB messes from people that thought they knew what they were doing... it's never pretty. Luckily my father owns an electronics mfg facility and I grew up in that environment, so I've been building and repairing electronics from a VERY young age.

In terms of shop jobs, the time it takes depends on the title and what you come across as you tear the game down. Each one is different and you will never have all the parts required on-hand, so you will be ordering parts before and during, just the nature of the beast. It will also depend on how crazy you want to get with the shop job... are you just cleaning and re-ringing and tweaking or while the game is apart are you going to go all out and tumble / polish all the metal parts etc? When you've got a game torn down, it's also the best time to install any mods, or send anything you may want customized out. (for plating or painting)

I had a conversation with another member (and client as I'm shopping a game for him) about the container games, and explained the same thing Adam did. Unless you are comfortable with shopping AND repairing your own games, or are willing to pay someone that can do these things for you, and you are somewhat of a gambling man, then a container game is not for you.

D

 

[mwong168]

I recommend buying Lost In The Zone even if you don't own a Twilight Zone. It basically documents his good friend Norm who bought one from a container deal and he shows you what to check and do before turning it on for the first time. I was thinking why would I wanna watch this if I never plan on owning a TZ but a lot of the stuff he shows you can be applied to your own games from that same era or even good general knowledge of how to rebuild a flippers, test transistors/diodes and he even lights Norm play field on fire. The colour commentary by Norm is classic on this and even Clay has a hard time keeping a straight face.

http://www.pinrepair.com/top/

I would also recommend sending Clay a one time $20 fee to subscribe to his Pinball Ninja blog site which he updates on a weekly basis. He documents his repairs calls and sometimes even has an accompanying video showing how he diagnosed and repaired the problem his client was having with their machine.

Aside from this I have also learned quite a bit from hanging around people like Menace who always seems to put other people's games ahead of his own :lol: Thanks for all your help taming some of my pin problems and showing me some basics.

 

[Pharoah007]

I never touched a pinball before 2008ish

Bought TOP vids.

Now I can do almost anything.

 

[Chris Bardon]

I've only been doing this for 3 years now, but I've learned a whole lot about what to do (and what not to do) when repairing games. Started off with some flipper rebuilds and switch adjustments, and I did a teardown, mylar reloval, and rebuild of my JM after I got it. I've also done a bunch of mechanical adjustments on things that have needed tweaking to work right, and have had to solder a bunch of coils, switches, etc that have busted over the course of the last few years (which WILL happen). First foray into board repair was some burnt GI on Whitewater. Star Trek taught me a lot about electrical troubleshooting, and ultimately ended up being more time than I wanted to spend on a game, but I'm reasonably confident that I could have eventually gotten it to work. I'd love to be able to grab a container project and do a full restore, but I just don't have that kind of free time. Maybe once the kids are older? I still want to do a rebuild on the JM glove (which I didn't do when I shopped it), and I've been thinking about doing a teardown of CV and trying to fix the PF wear.

The TOP 3 and 4 videos (Lost in the Zone and the IJ one) are both fantastic guides, as are Clay's pinball repair manuals. I've watched the TOP videos multiple times, and have gone back for reference more than once.

Did anyone here teach themselves to do board soldering? Is there a good guide to this? I was able to swap out a transistor and some GI pins based on Clay's videos, but I haven't got a lot of experience there, and I'm not super-confident in doing it. I think part of the problem is needing a better iron though.

 

[Pharoah007]

I think part of the problem is needing a better iron though.

A good Temp controled Iron is a MUST

 

[Menace]

The only way you can get proficient with soldering is practice. It's a lot like welding, it just becomes a "feel". Some people can do it, and others just can't.

D

 

[frolic]

I have started to collect a bunch of links for repair resources, including the $20 pinball ninja.

I had not heard of those top videos, i will check them out.

Is there a soldering station that everyone uses?

 

[Menace]

Tenma seems to be popular as it's a cheap and cheerful temp controlled station. I personally have a couple of professional Hako units (been using Hako for over 20 years) and the are tanks.

The TOP vids are essential for sure, I have most of them and are always full of useful info.

D

 

[tim.sanderson]

Is there a soldering station that everyone uses?

This is what I use:
http://hobbyhobby.com/store/product/328 ... g-Station/
Nice unit. Heats up in 30 or 40 seconds, and comes with multiple tips.

 

[mwong168]

Is there a soldering station that everyone uses?

This is what I currently use and setup a group buy for a few people years ago which came to just under $60cdn shipped and taxed crossing the border.
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/T ... -/21-10115

My old iron which I am not sure if Chris Bardon is using still was from Pinball Life
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=1867

I like fancy buttons and LCD read outs but learned to solder within my ability and will save the more complicated board repairs to good friends like Menace to do or at least with his supervision if we happen to be at a GTG. Plus New Castle beer is cheaper then a brand new Rotten Dog board when you don't really need to replace your old one. Sometimes you can try to fix it yourself and end up creating more work for someone who is a better "welder". I am sure even if I had the best Hako iron Menace could probably do a better job using a propane torch :lol:

 

[superjackpot]

I've been at it for 7 yrs. I remember on my first game a newer Stern, the flipper stopped working hours before a party... I called the service guy from where I bought the pin. I laugh at that now. Traded the Stern in a few months for a TZ and I just dove right in. Read literally every post on RGP on TZ Resets (I had that issue), and all 1990s DMD pages from Clay Guides. I read even when I did not have a repair. Read about flipper mechs, EOS switches, burned GI wiring etc. ... common stuff. Clay guides are not online (where they used to be), except for EMs. Decent alternative pinwiki http://www.pinwiki.com

including the $20 pinball ninja.

There are multiple sources for pin repairing - for reading and online posting of questions, but right now I'd say pinballninja is your best bet to learn about games in general on your own time. All his newest repair stories have videos. Pick a game title - perhaps something you are thinking of buying (e.g. STTNG), do a search and read every repair article's notes, watch videos where they exist. Often you will see a recurring theme with certain game titles, or game eras such as ball trough giving false multiball. While Clay does not have a repair entry for every title, you can learn a lot by reading the ones he does have. I find the latest videos are excellent. Pictures and words are great, but a complementary video is even better. He gives you both on his newest entries. The articles on EMs are very good and mesh nicely with his EM guides.
The TOP videos mentioned for TZ and IJ are nice to watch from your couch. Gives some decent tips on PF repairs as well.

Is there a soldering station that everyone uses?

Temperature controlled irons are best but a nice 30W iron will do too. I use the Solomon SL-10 and got it on sale for $60. Bought at http://www.a1parts.ca/solomon/. These guys are off North Queen Dr in Etobicoke, west side opposite Walmart (Queensway/427). This place is a good source for basic electronic parts like caps or resistors when you are in a pinch.
Watch out for splashed solder too. Use a towel to cover things around you when soldering.

 

[frolic]

Thanks, everybody, for the tips. I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing and fix stuff as it needs it.

When I move to my next house I'll have more room and I'll just jump in and take on a project. It will be in addition to my lineup of good working pins so it won't be a big deal if its in pieces for 6 months .