I did a podcast interview thing and we talked about my Pinballorama project.
Interview starts at 6:45 minutes in.
Interview starts at 6:45 minutes in.
If anyone wants to hear me ramble on about my arcade project...
- Thread starter Seven
- Start date
I looked at a space yesterday. 2500 sqft. It used to be two rental units so I have two 100 amp electrical service coming into the place. I also would have two washrooms, two furnaces, two water heaters, etc. All the other businesses in the building are closed by 6 PM, so I can make lots of noise after hours.
Their asking rent is fairly inexpensive - which is a huge plus for me. The space has sat empty for a couple years so that gives me some leverage.
There is a section in the front that would work perfect for the espresso bar area. It would be separate from the pinball section. Lots of natural light, space for several tables and lounge chairs. The upper back section (where the machines would be) seems to be large enough for at least 30 machines.
I like the idea of having two distinct sections. If a couple comes in, but only one wants to play, the other can hang out in the espresso bar, have coffee and read a book or something.
I'm going back to the space today to do some measuring. I'll draw out a floor plan and mess with machine layout. If I can comfortably fit 35 or more machines in the space, I think I'm going to go forward on it.
Their asking rent is fairly inexpensive - which is a huge plus for me. The space has sat empty for a couple years so that gives me some leverage.
There is a section in the front that would work perfect for the espresso bar area. It would be separate from the pinball section. Lots of natural light, space for several tables and lounge chairs. The upper back section (where the machines would be) seems to be large enough for at least 30 machines.
I like the idea of having two distinct sections. If a couple comes in, but only one wants to play, the other can hang out in the espresso bar, have coffee and read a book or something.
I'm going back to the space today to do some measuring. I'll draw out a floor plan and mess with machine layout. If I can comfortably fit 35 or more machines in the space, I think I'm going to go forward on it.
DRANO
Super Member
We're only recently starting to see a few of these types of spaces crop up in Toronto. Are the zoning laws out west any easier to deal with?
I'll take a hit, dealer! Caffeine and pinball, two things that get me through the day. Make sure to update us with plenty of pictures. Good luck in the venture.
There will be an extra hurdle if I want to use the space I found.
For this particular space there is actually a zone regulation in place that states "no arcades". Anywhere else in the town, no zone restrictions. I had a brief chat with one of the council members and explained it isn't going to be an 80's style coin drop arcade - there is an admission price. He thought it was a cool idea. He also said the "no arcade" rule was antiquated. He is on board with the idea.
I was in the space again today. I took some measurements. I can very easily fit 35 machines. Creatively I could fit 50.
Time to get some estimates, do math, crunch numbers.
Then I guess have a talk with the city.
I just posted some pictures on the facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/pinballorama/
DRANO
Super Member
That's pretty cool! I wonder why all these municipalities instated these anti-arcade bylaws in the first place?
I guess they weren't very well liked back in the day.
30-50 pins is gonna make a helluva ruckus though! Not sure anyone is going to want to sit and read a book and drink a latte while TAF multiball is starting up
Are you considering anything for sound control?
I guess they weren't very well liked back in the day.
30-50 pins is gonna make a helluva ruckus though! Not sure anyone is going to want to sit and read a book and drink a latte while TAF multiball is starting up
Are you considering anything for sound control?
Aunt Agnes
Member
Looks like a great space. Hopefully you can get this going. My in-laws are in Kamloops so I get out there a couple of times a year. Maybe I could convince the family that a road trip to Mission to "see the sights" is in order, and while we're there maybe we could stop by this cool place to play some pinball. I mean it just makes sense, right?
Good luck with everything.
Good luck with everything.
That's pretty cool! I wonder why all these municipalities instated these anti-arcade bylaws in the first place?
I guess they weren't very well liked back in the day.
30-50 pins is gonna make a helluva ruckus though! Not sure anyone is going to want to sit and read a book and drink a latte while TAF multiball is starting up
Are you considering anything for sound control?
I grew up in the golden age of arcades. I remember skipping school, going to the arcade, throwing quarters at machines, buying pot (because dealers hung out at arcades), smoking pot, and then slacking off around the arcade all day. I'm not sure why a city would want to stop that activity.
For Mission, I guess at one time there were about 3 arcades in the old downtown area (about 6 square blocks). I hear the element it attracted was pretty bad. I've even heard one describe it as "scary". It makes sense the city decided to purge the arcades via zoning restrictions. But this was back in the late 80's. There hasn't been an arcade anywhere in Mission since then.
As for sound, I've already thought about this. I have a recording studio back ground and I've built more than my share of acoustic treatments. This space has a drop ceiling and I can incorporate acoustic absorption panels into the drop ceiling. I can also put them on the walls above machines. In the center area I could put in some gobo walls (which are basically sound absorbing panels). They use these in studio spaces to isolate things like drums from the rest of the band. There are two sets up stairs going up to the machine area from the cafe area. Thinking of how I'd lay this out, I'd only use one set - I could glass off the other.
I'd really have to get in the space, get things set up, and take some readings. I won't be able to stop all the sound, but I could probably easily reduce it by 30%. For a player in the machine area, it will actually be much nicer with acoustic treatments. My goal is to reduce the "crosstalk" from machines so you can actually hear the one you are playing.
Acoustic treatments can look cool too. This is the keyboard area of my old studio. I did the treatments in red and gray panels.
Build a wall and keep all the pins separate from the rest of the establishement?. I hear Trump is an expert on that subject, maybe reach out to him?
D
Tell him the sound is coming from Mexican pins.
"Don't get me wrong, I love Mexican pinball. La familia Addams is a good machine, but I'm putting up the wall to make arcades great again. Believe me, no one makes arcades great again better than me. I'm putting up the wall and I'm making Stern pay for it."
DRANO
Super Member
I made some headway about opening the space in Mission. I keep being told "arcades" are not allowed downtown. I had looked at the zone bylaws months ago and seem to remember something about that.
I looked them up again and read the entire bylaw codes. No arcades? Maybe not so much.
Downtown is small, runs a handful of blocks along three streets - Railway, 1st and 2nd.
1st street is the main shopping street. 2nd has some business spaces, library, museum. Stuff like that. Railway looks semi industrial. It has weird storefronts on one side and train tracks on the other. The space I want is on Railway.
The space is zoned "CCD1" - which is "Core Commercial Downtown One".
In the zone bylaw 5050-2009, section 901, it says this about CCD1:
"The intent of this zone is to provide for the general commercial uses typically associated with a downtown area found within the Commercial Core area. The CCD1 zone is intended to accommodate uses within the historical downtown area of Mission and is designed to retain the form and character of this area respecting the rich Heritage of Downtown Mission."
It lists permitted uses by category. Under the category "entertainment" there are four items. These are Arcade, Banquet Hall, Cinema, Pool and Billiard Hall.
Under section 106 it breaks down use categories and the zones these are allowed in. Arcades are permitted in CH1, CCG, CGS, CVD, and CCD1. Really, all the zones I'd be interested in.
So, according to the zone bylaws, arcades are allowed.
I needed to verify there isn't an amendment to this I'm not seeing. Everyone keeps saying "no arcades" and I need to know where they are getting this from.
Today I called a council member. Told him what I found.
He said "Hmmm? Maybe no arcades is just on 1st then. I guess Railway is different. Submit your business license and if there is any problem I have your back."
I didn't tell him but almost all of 1st is zoned CCD1 as well.
Best I can put together is there used to be a no arcade law. Zone laws downtown had major changes done in 2009. Something tells me they took old zone use descriptions previously in place before the arcade rule and re-implemented them - effectively tossing out the no arcade rule. Very strange no one realizes this. They're just going by word of mouth.
Me and my electrician friend as visiting the space on Thursday. If he says power is good, then I'm going forward.
I wanted to start with 25 machines, but I only have 20 ready and one is being rented (which I'm leaving in place). I'm going to get a couple months free in the space to account for deficiencies, so I'll have a couple months to crank out a few more repairs. If I can buy a machine or two during this time that would be perfect.
As of right now, things are looking very positive. If all things fall into place, I could be open late June.
I looked them up again and read the entire bylaw codes. No arcades? Maybe not so much.
Downtown is small, runs a handful of blocks along three streets - Railway, 1st and 2nd.
1st street is the main shopping street. 2nd has some business spaces, library, museum. Stuff like that. Railway looks semi industrial. It has weird storefronts on one side and train tracks on the other. The space I want is on Railway.
The space is zoned "CCD1" - which is "Core Commercial Downtown One".
In the zone bylaw 5050-2009, section 901, it says this about CCD1:
"The intent of this zone is to provide for the general commercial uses typically associated with a downtown area found within the Commercial Core area. The CCD1 zone is intended to accommodate uses within the historical downtown area of Mission and is designed to retain the form and character of this area respecting the rich Heritage of Downtown Mission."
It lists permitted uses by category. Under the category "entertainment" there are four items. These are Arcade, Banquet Hall, Cinema, Pool and Billiard Hall.
Under section 106 it breaks down use categories and the zones these are allowed in. Arcades are permitted in CH1, CCG, CGS, CVD, and CCD1. Really, all the zones I'd be interested in.
So, according to the zone bylaws, arcades are allowed.
I needed to verify there isn't an amendment to this I'm not seeing. Everyone keeps saying "no arcades" and I need to know where they are getting this from.
Today I called a council member. Told him what I found.
He said "Hmmm? Maybe no arcades is just on 1st then. I guess Railway is different. Submit your business license and if there is any problem I have your back."
I didn't tell him but almost all of 1st is zoned CCD1 as well.
Best I can put together is there used to be a no arcade law. Zone laws downtown had major changes done in 2009. Something tells me they took old zone use descriptions previously in place before the arcade rule and re-implemented them - effectively tossing out the no arcade rule. Very strange no one realizes this. They're just going by word of mouth.
Me and my electrician friend as visiting the space on Thursday. If he says power is good, then I'm going forward.
I wanted to start with 25 machines, but I only have 20 ready and one is being rented (which I'm leaving in place). I'm going to get a couple months free in the space to account for deficiencies, so I'll have a couple months to crank out a few more repairs. If I can buy a machine or two during this time that would be perfect.
As of right now, things are looking very positive. If all things fall into place, I could be open late June.
fantasygoat
Member
Don't put all your machines out - keep five or so back so they're ready to swap in when the other games break, which will give you time to fix them out of sight.
Do you have a separate repair room blocked out?
Do you have a separate repair room blocked out?
I was thinking about doing that actually. If something dies and I need to wait for a part, I don't want it just sitting there.
In the space I'm looking at there is an office and storage space which I want to convert into a workshop. The cool thing it is has a window into the rest of the space so people can see what is being worked on. I also have a handful of machines which need work. There is a back wall where I can line up 4-5 machines - have a sign that says "coming soon" or perhaps "hospital".
Just getting some out of my workshop at home will be a huge plus. I've been stock piling machines for the last year and I am literally out of room here. That makes working on them at home frustrating because the workshop is cramped.
Machines that need mechanical work will go to the shop. Ones I'm painting will stay home.
A little update on the space. My electrician friend came in last Thursday. He feels positive about the electrical. We should have plenty of juice. Spoke with the realtor friday. We are writing so I'll get in June/July for fixturing, lease starts Aug 1st. That gives me a little more time to get my shit together and get more games ready to go. Since there is still the slight possibility the district will grumble about "arcades", the lease is void if I can't get the license from the district. If I can sign the documents, get the license, then he will give me the keys as soon as he gets two months and security deposit. I could possibly be in working on the space by the end of the month. Basically a month free of fixturing.
The first thing I'm doing is getting electricity in the space, blacking out the windows except a neon "play pinball here" sign and a sign that says "coming soon"
In the space I'm looking at there is an office and storage space which I want to convert into a workshop. The cool thing it is has a window into the rest of the space so people can see what is being worked on. I also have a handful of machines which need work. There is a back wall where I can line up 4-5 machines - have a sign that says "coming soon" or perhaps "hospital".
Just getting some out of my workshop at home will be a huge plus. I've been stock piling machines for the last year and I am literally out of room here. That makes working on them at home frustrating because the workshop is cramped.
Machines that need mechanical work will go to the shop. Ones I'm painting will stay home.
A little update on the space. My electrician friend came in last Thursday. He feels positive about the electrical. We should have plenty of juice. Spoke with the realtor friday. We are writing so I'll get in June/July for fixturing, lease starts Aug 1st. That gives me a little more time to get my shit together and get more games ready to go. Since there is still the slight possibility the district will grumble about "arcades", the lease is void if I can't get the license from the district. If I can sign the documents, get the license, then he will give me the keys as soon as he gets two months and security deposit. I could possibly be in working on the space by the end of the month. Basically a month free of fixturing.
The first thing I'm doing is getting electricity in the space, blacking out the windows except a neon "play pinball here" sign and a sign that says "coming soon"
fantasygoat
Member
Are you getting concessions on rent based on what you're spending on renos? Every commercial lease I've dealt with has money built in for capital improvements, but if you don't use the full amount it can be applied to rent. My last business got six months free rent that way.
I'll be getting two months, possibly three, for "fixturing". I don't pay rent for these months.
There really isn't much I need to do in the space since 75% of it just needs to be empty. The front cafe area is about 400 sf. I need to put down a floor of some kind there. Not sure what material I want to use yet. Something people can spill stuff on. Then I need my counters, a sink, plumb that in, and some electrical.
The pinball area needs some electrical run and we are replacing one of the two electrical panels. We can use some existing receptacles, but we won't know how many until we trace it all.
It has cement floors in the pinball area - half has carpet on it. My first thought was to rip up the carpet and paint it all. Maybe epoxy. If it is all cement, my plan of having a small army of Roomba's sweep at night will work. Since the Roomba's won't need to get under couches or tables, I can mount shark fins and robot heads on them.
One washroom is brand new. The other is older, kind of funky, but works. I don't need to do anything with it before I open.
This used to be two units, but they took out the wall between them. The right side had just been painted white. So really, I just need to paint the other side. I haven't decided how I'm going to paint it yet though.
There are white security bars in the windows. I'm going to pull them and paint them black. They are right against the glass so I can't fit neon between the bars and the glass. You also can't clean the glass. When I put them back in, I'll fix that oversight.
Outside, I want to paint.
All the dark brown will be something bright. I'm thinking red. Maybe yellow for the trim. Most of the new businesses opening on Railway are painting the outsides in bright colours. It's looking very festive. The boarded up door on the right is actually a small entrance like the one on the left. The realtor boarded it up to stop hobos from camping out in there. I'm going to wall this off properly since I won't be using this door and I don't need it for fire code.
The space above the door with the blue sign, I get this area for my sign. This is the best spot since this is a one way street. You can see that area about a block and a half up.
I can do all the work myself. A bunch of friends have offered to help as well. Realistically, all the work can be done in a couple of weekends.
There really isn't much I need to do in the space since 75% of it just needs to be empty. The front cafe area is about 400 sf. I need to put down a floor of some kind there. Not sure what material I want to use yet. Something people can spill stuff on. Then I need my counters, a sink, plumb that in, and some electrical.
The pinball area needs some electrical run and we are replacing one of the two electrical panels. We can use some existing receptacles, but we won't know how many until we trace it all.
It has cement floors in the pinball area - half has carpet on it. My first thought was to rip up the carpet and paint it all. Maybe epoxy. If it is all cement, my plan of having a small army of Roomba's sweep at night will work. Since the Roomba's won't need to get under couches or tables, I can mount shark fins and robot heads on them.
One washroom is brand new. The other is older, kind of funky, but works. I don't need to do anything with it before I open.
This used to be two units, but they took out the wall between them. The right side had just been painted white. So really, I just need to paint the other side. I haven't decided how I'm going to paint it yet though.
There are white security bars in the windows. I'm going to pull them and paint them black. They are right against the glass so I can't fit neon between the bars and the glass. You also can't clean the glass. When I put them back in, I'll fix that oversight.
Outside, I want to paint.
All the dark brown will be something bright. I'm thinking red. Maybe yellow for the trim. Most of the new businesses opening on Railway are painting the outsides in bright colours. It's looking very festive. The boarded up door on the right is actually a small entrance like the one on the left. The realtor boarded it up to stop hobos from camping out in there. I'm going to wall this off properly since I won't be using this door and I don't need it for fire code.
The space above the door with the blue sign, I get this area for my sign. This is the best spot since this is a one way street. You can see that area about a block and a half up.
I can do all the work myself. A bunch of friends have offered to help as well. Realistically, all the work can be done in a couple of weekends.