LED questions!!!

[theyangman]

Alright so I took the general advice given here and I started to map out my Fish Tales in preparation for LEDs.

I do have a few questions though.

1. Are flashers any different when it comes to LED's? Some spots on my game have both a flasher bulb and regular bulb, side by side lighting up the same insert. Both the regular bulbs and flashers are wedge bases, but the flasher bulbs have a bigger "head". Do I need to take any specific caution here? Is there a specific flasher LED bulb that has a bigger head?

2. Are all general illumination bulbs 47 base bulbs? I noticed in my GI test menu, the jet bumpers light up as well as all my other GI bulbs, but I can see that they are wedge bases. Everything else appeared to be 47 bases though. Is that a general rule of thumb? Also I noticed that there was one big round base bulb under one of the plastic inserts on my machine that was on during the GI test, but the overall bulb was bigger. Both the base and the head. It is at the back of my machine under some plastics and I couldn't access it without tearing it down which I plan on only having to do once. Any idea what the bulb might be?

3. The lights in the head are made up of two styles of bulbs. Regular 555 bulbs just like in the game. But there is a larger style bulb as well. Once again they have wedge bases but the bulbs head is bigger. Are they the same flasher bulbs as in question 1?

Thanks guys for my noobie questions, I appreciate the help!

Sent from my Pixel XXXL

 

[superjackpot]

http://tuukan.fliput.net/lamput_en.html

 

[superjackpot]

Check the FT manual. It has a couple diagrams for lamps and flashers which will list the type.

http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/861/Williams_1992_Fish_Tales_English_Manual.pdf

 

[meegis]

Flashers with wedge that look bigger are #906

The big round base flasher is #89

 

[spiroagnew]

In my opinion there really isn't a whole lot of value in a wholesale replacing of all incadescent flashers to LED flashers. They tend to be on the expensive side and the colour flash is so quick and infrequent a regular incandescent does the job just fine.

However, I do understand this is your first machine and there is a strong desire to buy every mod, bobble and technology upgrade imaginable for your new game. Try to resist. You'll look back upon it when you've got a few more games and realize you spent the price of a nice EM machine on stuff that you could have really done without. We've all made this mistake.

Enjoy the game!

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

 

[mwong168]

1. Are flashers any different when it comes to LED's? Some spots on my game have both a flasher bulb and regular bulb, side by side lighting up the same insert. Both the regular bulbs and flashers are wedge bases, but the flasher bulbs have a bigger "head". Do I need to take any specific caution here? Is there a specific flasher LED bulb that has a bigger head?

Inserts under your playfield use a twist-in wedge base socket which go into a light PCB board as shown below

These take a #555 bulb/LED which does in fact look very similar to that of a #906 bulb. The main difference being that a #906 bulb is rated for 13v and a #555 bulb is only rated for 6.3v.

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

Just because it fits does not mean they should be interchangable, so for example if you put a #555 bulb in the place of a flasher it might work for a little bit but expect to replace it very often because it was only designed to take 6.3v not 13v. If you are unsure if a particular bulb or insert is a flasher you can check your manual or go into your diagnostics menu, lamp tests and cycle through the games flashers and pay attention to the actual game and the DMD because it will tell you which flasher it is currently testing.

Also sometimes inserts can also use a #44 bulb because another mechanism under the playfield might be in the way or it wasn't cost effective to create a light PCB board just to light up 1-2 inserts. #47 and #44 bulbs are the same and typically games have #47 installed but people have been replacing them with #47 as they go. The reason for this is because a #47 only draws 150 ma while #44 draws 250 ma. I believe the brightness is negligible between the two and unless your game is on location for 12-14 hours a day the extra heat and stress won't be good for your game in the long run. In a home environment you don't have to be overly concerned about this and since you are going with LEDs then this #44 vs #47 incandescent bulb debate is moot.

2. Are all general illumination bulbs 47 base bulbs? I noticed in my GI test menu, the jet bumpers light up as well as all my other GI bulbs, but I can see that they are wedge bases. Everything else appeared to be 47 bases though. Is that a general rule of thumb? Also I noticed that there was one big round base bulb under one of the plastic inserts on my machine that was on during the GI test, but the overall bulb was bigger. Both the base and the head. It is at the back of my machine under some plastics and I couldn't access it without tearing it down which I plan on only having to do once. Any idea what the bulb might be?

Most pop bumper bulbs are part of the general illumination and I usually recommend you replace with LEDs when you do because they could be buried under ramps, wireforms and other mechanisms.

 

[mwong168]

In your case with Fish Tales they look to be somewhat accessible and the only tricky screw to remove would be the one on the middle pop bumper under your boat ramp. You might be able to remove a few screws and lift that ramp up enough or completely for you to access the screw otherwise there are small ratchet sets you can buy like this to help you get into tight spaces.

I bought a set similar to this from Princess Auto many years ago for I think $5 and used it a few times. Also here is another alternative to lighting up your pop bumpers that Comet carries:

http://www.cometpinball.com/LED-POP-BUMPER-RINGS-p/bmpring.htm
http://www.cometpinball.com/Pinball-Pop-Bumper-LED-Light-p/11smdbmpring.htm

Pinball Life sells BriteCaps(tm) EVO which is another pop bumper light alternative.

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=3624

Spiroagnew (aka Rob) did a great two part write up a while back comparing all these in his games with pics. You can read on that here:

https://creditdotpinball.com/2015/06/11/review-pop-bumper-showdown-part-1-britemods-britecaps-evo/
https://creditdotpinball.com/2015/06/

In regards to the bulb with the big round base, that is a #89 flasher bulb (see picture of different bulbs above for reference) which is rated for 13v as well and it should not be on constantly. If it is on constantly I would recommend you stop playing your game until you at least remove the #89 flasher bulb otherwise you might melt some plastics or damage other parts of your game. Whenever a flasher stays locked on it means you have a bad drive transistor on your power driver board.

Not sure which #89 flasher you bulb you are talking about but I have highlighted the only ones from your manual below.



If you start a game and notice it is constantly on then shut your game off immediately. Remove your playfield glass and all balls before lifting it in the complete up right position. Whenever you are working on your game especially under your playfield make sure your game is off otherwise you risk dropping a screw or nut or touch your metal tool with something like a coil or flasher and short something out. You should be able to remove the #89 bulbs by hand otherwise you can slightly bend the socket tab as it will probably look something like below to give you better access to twist and remove the bulb otherwise it is only held on by one screw.

Your game will still be playable and shouldn't do any further damage to your game since it is only a flasher. But you will want to have this fixed by someone who knows what they are doing or at the very least experience in doing board work. If this was a flipper, sling shot, kick out or pop bumper you should stop playing your game immediately because you will do damage.

If you check your manual you can find this page which lists all the drive transistors for your solonoids and flashers.



I've highlighted the three possible drive transistors Q32, Q26, Q24 it can be based on it being an #89 flasher bulb on your power drive board shown below. If you check inside your head the power drive board is the biggest board and located on the the lower right.



If you had a DMM (digital multi-meter) you can easily test these ones highlighted above and all others ones if you have any doubts. If you want to know how to do this test I can gladly explain in another post later while you digest this

3. The lights in the head are made up of two styles of bulbs. Regular 555 bulbs just like in the game. But there is a larger style bulb as well. Once again they have wedge bases but the bulbs head is bigger. Are they the same flasher bulbs as in question 1?

This is pretty much the same question as #1 and in the head you might also notice there are two coloured sockets. The #555 bulbs used for the GI are white and the #906 bulbs used for flashers are black. If you are unsure you can always check your manual or again go into the diagnostics menu and cycle through your flasher test.

 

[theyangman]

So now I've got the bulb situation figured out. I counted and recounted all my bulbs listed them out and what colors I want.

I have broken my list down by the three styles of bulbs I need

1. Wedges
2. Bayonets
3. Flashers

Then each bulb was labeled with a matching color and what it does

......But now it's bulb selection time. Jeeeeezzzz.... Comet pinball makes like 100 different kinds.

I know which bulbs go where, so it's now down to the actual selection of the LED's themselves.

1. Frosted or Clear? Advantages/disadvantages to both? Are either more applicable to different applications GI/inserts/translite?

Then what LED type is best or recommended for each application? I see so many freaking kinds which make this so difficult....

Dome tops, Flat tops, SMD's, SMD's with dome tops, SMD's with reflectors, Non ghosting, non strobing, non flicker..... like ARRRRRGHHGHH, then you multiply all those options with frosted, clear, or no lenses

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. This is insanity, the choices are making me bonkers.

 

[Menace]

Op Max for all the GI.
Inserts I usually use frosted. For any sockets that are a right angle or parallel to the PF, I get the flex head versions but you can't get those in frosted.
As for type, I think I've gone with the 2SMD versions from Comet with good results.

Other people on here have way more experience than I do with LED's (I'm not a huge fan, but I install them for clients when requested).

D

 

[theyangman]

I want to try it out, I can always go back to incandescents if it doesn't do it for me.

 

[BMHouze]

My qusetion is
OCD board to properly run all the LEDs?

 

[Menace]

I don't believe Fish Tales used any lamp fading effects, so as long as he has the non-ghosting game ROM he should be OK. Ultimately the OCD boards would still help them operate more like incandescent which is great, but it gets even more expensive.

D

 

[theyangman]

I have heard of this elusive non-ghosting ROM for Fish Tales, but all threads I find on it are VERY old.

Is this still available anywhere? I know asking openly might be bad, please excuse me if ROM talk is not allowed here.

 

[mwong168]

Send Dave Astill a PM as he has been burning and selling ROMS for a while. He has an ongoing ROM sale thread here and located up in Collingwood too.

http://www.pinballrevolution.com/threads/pinball-rom-upgrade-sale.5050/