Let's Keep The Topic Rolling -

[Bally Boy]

Just to keep the discussion off the F/S Thread regarding - met-le-ac-dc-le-mb-and-cc.


"As a Real Estate agent I can address this logic with some insight. I have seen home owners "Over Finish" their homes. You don't simply get back what you put in. Nobody buys a house in a ghetto and adds Granite Counters, Luxury tile heated floors etc etc and gets their money back. I have seen owners buy houses and restore them and lose money because they didn't judge the market correctly.

You have "Restored" titles that are barely a few years old with mods that are available on Ebay etc not out of production one of a kind. ACDC and Metallica are readily available in HUO condition since few of them have ever been on location (a majority I suspect were bought NIB by collectors). If yours are LE models and sell for that then good luck to you but adding a few mods to basically "New" machines doesn't justify more than twice their price new IMO." - Dipstick Jimmy


Yeah, that's a good theory, but I'd hardly call CC, MB, AC/DC LTBRLE, and METLE "ghetto" titles. In this case Jimmy, he's spent the money on the Oakville Lakeshore ( if you wanna use the real estate angle ) and CC and MB haven't been manufactured for almost 20 years. I'd say that "may" make some of his logic seem a bit more reasonable to some regarding those titles.

Real Estate is a great example of what's happening here - market can dictate the price. If somebody wants it and has the money, they buy it, if they don't like it - pass on to the next listing please.

I wonder if Real Estate agents sit around in the office and post threads in online forums about how "out to lunch" this/that listing agents pricing is???????

I also know Real Estate listing deals get passed around between agents before they ever hit the MLS system for the masses. That sounds a lot like what goes on here in the pinball community too. Seems to me there are a lot of parallels here.

 

[Vengeance]

Real Estate is a business, this is a hobbyist forum.

If pinball is your business don't try and pretend to be a hobbyist.

That is where the issues come from.

 

[Vengeance]

Also your Title should be Dan:


"Let's Keep The Tr0ll Rolling "

 

[FastEd]

Real Estate is a business, this is a hobbyist forum.

If pinball is your business don't try and pretend to be a hobbyist.

That is where the issues come from.

I agree with this statement 100%.

Ok, here's my observation, and I'm not condoning one behavior or another, just my observation:

I think there are 4 prices out there for a pin:

Way underpriced:
These are the ones that sell within 15 minutes of listing. What are the motives for listing a pin at this price? One is that the seller doesn't know their pricing, in which case they're getting "taken advantage of". These transactions are never "price policed", but, in some ways, there should be a reverse price policing that should take place to help out these uninformed sellers. The second motivation is that the seller just wants to get rid of the pin fast. These usually get talked about as the "conquests" or "the one that got away".

Way overpriced – “Regular" pins:
These are the ones that sit on Kijiji, waiting for the gullible buyer. These pins usually get joked about on the forums, but, die down quite quickly, usually goes unsold. The motivation is quite obvious on this one.

Way overpriced - "Collector" pins:
These are the ones that generate the most dialog and bring passionate arguments from both sides. The motivation for this is quite simple. The seller is usually not in a hurry to sell, and is just letting it known to the community that this certain pin is available at the right price. It's the same as people advertising that they have such and such a pin, but, would never sell it, unless a crazy offer is given to them. It's just that this individual has advertised what that crazy price is. Both accomplish the same result, that a certain pin is available at the right price. Almost like a brag post.

Pin priced just right:
These are pins that usually sell within a week. The pricing might follow the regular "pinflation" that takes place. Usually exchanges hands quite quietly, with a few "bumps". Usually both buyer and seller know what they're doing. Lots of offline deals are done this way too.

Who's right? Everyone has different motivators and different agendas.

I wish everyone were "hobbyists", it would make things so much simpler.

 

[cdnpinballer]

One thing is for sure, if I were a noob today looking at getting into pinball I would glance at the cost of admission and turn the fak around asap and find something else to entertain me. In fact I nearly cashed in some chips this year to try a new hobby but the weather and local death toll kinda blew up that idea at least until next year. But it makes you wonder..... I mean, the cost of a NIB pin is near the cost of a brand new econobox car. Think about the BOM for a car vs. pin. <big head shake>

 

[Bally Boy]

Real Estate is a business, this is a hobbyist forum.

If pinball is your business don't try and pretend to be a hobbyist.

That is where the issues come from.

That is well said, but you gotta agree Adam, when people see hobbies with big cash being thrown around like this - things get noticed.... and somebody is going to make a business out of it. Just look at all the pinball related companies that have started up in just the last 5 years, it's turned into a business, in my opinion - a pretty big business.

 

[Vengeance]

That is well said, but you gotta agree Adam, when people see hobbies with big cash being thrown around like this - things get noticed.... and somebody is going to make a business out of it. Just look at all the pinball related companies that have started up in just the last 5 years, it's turned into a business, in my opinion - a pretty big business.

Correct, but there is a difference and that is where the problem lies.

Playdium is a business, brick and mortar storefront, employees, etc, etc. If this was playdium selling a 20K CCC I wouldn't even blink an eye, because they are a business, their entire existence is based on the principal of making money to keep the doors open.

RSSS pretends to be a hobbyist and that is where feathers get ruffled because a PURE hobbyist would know better than to show to a hobbyist forum, post a price tag like that and expect not to get flamed. He wants it both ways, he wants to be able to rely on the community, and at the same time, rake us over the coals when it comes time to sell.

Playdium doesn't come here looking for advice, or help, or anything, because they are business, I can't say the same thing for RSSS.

That is the distinction, choose to be one or the other, but try to be both and deal with the backlash.

 

[Vengeance]

Correct, but there is a difference and that is where the problem lies.

Playdium is a business, brick and mortar storefront, employees, etc, etc. If this was playdium selling a 20K CCC I wouldn't even blink an eye, because they are a business, their entire existence is based on the principal of making money to keep the doors open.

RSSS pretends to be a hobbyist and that is where feathers get ruffled because a PURE hobbyist would know better than to show to a hobbyist forum, post a price tag like that and expect not to get flamed. He wants it both ways, he wants to be able to rely on the community, and at the same time, rake us over the coals when it comes time to sell.

Playdium doesn't come here looking for advice, or help, or anything, because they are business, I can't say the same thing for RSSS.

That is the distinction, choose to be one or the other, but try to be both and deal with the backlash.

Hell even RAB over on MAACA gets this with his RAB and playdium accounts

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

 

[Bally Boy]

Correct, but there is a difference and that is where the problem lies.

Playdium is a business, brick and mortar storefront, employees, etc, etc. If this was playdium selling a 20K CCC I wouldn't even blink an eye, because they are a business, their entire existence is based on the principal of making money to keep the doors open.

RSSS pretends to be a hobbyist and that is where feathers get ruffled because a PURE hobbyist would know better than to show to a hobbyist forum, post a price tag like that and expect not to get flamed. He wants it both ways, he wants to be able to rely on the community, and at the same time, rake us over the coals when it comes time to sell.

Playdium doesn't come here looking for advice, or help, or anything, because they are business, I can't say the same thing for RSSS.

That is the distinction, choose to be one or the other, but try to be both and deal with the backlash.

Adam RSSS doesn't seem to care.

My original post was just meant to point out if this was a person from the perceived "circle" the banter may not have been allowed on the thread. That's all. No troll. Just an even playfield for all in the "For Sale" section. All this talk about "helping the community" - I can't accept the fact that some newbie is going to buy a 20k CC, I'm not saying it would never ever happen, but it's really unlikely. If it did sell it would probably be a collector and likely somebody who knows about pinball and is probably a forum member somewhere.

Playdium doesn't post on this forum but they do have a section on another forum. They also post ads on Kijiji all the time... that's obviously working for the business or they probably wouldn't bother.... I thought I mention that too... I do realize that RSSS is NOT Starburst/Playdium though.

 

[DRANO]

Dan... You seem hung up on this "circle".
Is there a deeper agenda here to uncover the pinball Illuminati? Maybe this group of 10 posters

Are there little green men pulling the strings from behind the pinball scenes?

Conspiracy theories abound!!!

Maybe the simple fact of the matter is that there are many people in this hobby that are friends and that do socialize outside of this forum. And thank God that none of them would be stupid enough to try and post a $20K CC here... amongst their friends.
Hell, if I ever did that I would expect to get flamed by all of them, and rightfully so.

 

[REVOLUTION]

Thank you for starting a new topic.

 

[dipstick jimmy]

Just to keep the discussion off the F/S Thread regarding - met-le-ac-dc-le-mb-and-cc.


"As a Real Estate agent I can address this logic with some insight. I have seen home owners "Over Finish" their homes. You don't simply get back what you put in. Nobody buys a house in a ghetto and adds Granite Counters, Luxury tile heated floors etc etc and gets their money back. I have seen owners buy houses and restore them and lose money because they didn't judge the market correctly.

You have "Restored" titles that are barely a few years old with mods that are available on Ebay etc not out of production one of a kind. ACDC and Metallica are readily available in HUO condition since few of them have ever been on location (a majority I suspect were bought NIB by collectors). If yours are LE models and sell for that then good luck to you but adding a few mods to basically "New" machines doesn't justify more than twice their price new IMO." - Dipstick Jimmy


Yeah, that's a good theory, but I'd hardly call CC, MB, AC/DC LTBRLE, and METLE "ghetto" titles. In this case Jimmy, he's spent the money on the Oakville Lakeshore ( if you wanna use the real estate angle ) and CC and MB haven't been manufactured for almost 20 years. I'd say that "may" make some of his logic seem a bit more reasonable to some regarding those titles.

Real Estate is a great example of what's happening here - market can dictate the price. If somebody wants it and has the money, they buy it, if they don't like it - pass on to the next listing please.

I wonder if Real Estate agents sit around in the office and post threads in online forums about how "out to lunch" this/that listing agents pricing is???????

I also know Real Estate listing deals get passed around between agents before they ever hit the MLS system for the masses. That sounds a lot like what goes on here in the pinball community too. Seems to me there are a lot of parallels here.

I wasn't referring to any of the titles as "Ghetto" so to make the point more EXACT for you, I was referring specifically to ACDC and Metallica; the comparison would be you buying a home from a builder and adding light fixtures and then doubling the price after 1 year. As Vengance pointed out Real Estate is a business and pinball for most is a hobby.

 

[scylla]

I think Genesis might be "ghetto". Can't imagine anyone would ever HEP a Genesis.

Now I've probably offended someone.

Pre-sorry for that.

 

[DRANO]

Can't imagine anyone would ever HEP a Genesis.

You'd be surprised what sort of requests Chris gets.
He once did up a Rocky and Bullwinkle because the owner had some strange attachment to that title... and not so much to his money

I kind of like Genesis actually (minus the crazy-ass translite of course)

 

[fantasygoat]

I mean, the cost of a NIB pin is near the cost of a brand new econobox car. Think about the BOM for a car vs. pin.

They produce from about 500 to 3,000 machines for a particular title. A car will be produced in the millions.

If they built millions of pinball machines per title they'd probably cost $100 each! Volume is the reason pins cost what they do - it's an incredibly low volume business compared to the auto industry. Hell, Stern is a boutique maker compared to WMS back in the 90s!

There's always been shit talk about pricing in this hobby, but the big difference now is it's really starting to be serious money - 20 years ago there wasn't a single machine that would command five digit pricing, but now it's getting hard to avoid it. The more money involved, the more heated the arguments get. Plus now the local supply of games from non-hobbyists is basically dried up, so there's even more competition for the limited resources available.

I'm surprised it's as civil as it is.

 

[DRANO]

I think cars are usually produced in ranges closer to 50,000-100,000+ units per year depending on the model... but the point is still valid.
Pins haven't been produced in anywhere close to that volume since TAF at 20,000 units I think?

 

[fantasygoat]

The last big run was RFM at 12,000 units. I am fairly sure Stern hasn't hit that number.