Looking for first machine, and some advice!

[Chill]

Hey everyone!

First post - so I'll introduce myself first. I've clocked what seems like a million hours of pinball in my 30+ years. As a kid I always thought only arcades and rich people ever had pinball machines!

For the past few years I've toyed with the idea of shopping for my own machine. About a week ago I decided I'm serious.

I'm looking for some help to keep from getting swindled, screwed, or beaten in the process. I'm not looking for a super-expensive, $5000 new machine. I'm also not seeking a machine that needs a ton of work. I want a machine to play, to learn about, and to maybe start a new obsession.

Any tips, advice, recommended starter machines... I'm all ears!

Thanks

 

[tim.sanderson]

Welcome to my world! (and PBR )
I had similar bullet points when looking for a first machine. My goal was to keep it under $1000 for a late 80's-to-90's pin. I wound up going against many peoples recommendations, and going in on a 'container pin' for my first machine. (not because I would get ripped off, but rather due to the machine likely requiring a bit of work to get running the way I want it to)
I bought one for $700, but I'll have to let you know how it pans out because I don't have it yet... my pin is currently in the middle of the Atlantic!

 

[slacker]

Welcome
Get out and play eveything you can. This will help you decide what your looking for EM, SS, or DMD the type will also help you decide on a price.
You also need to decide if you are they type to do repairs or do you just want to play with no worries, this will slim down your search as well.
Once you know what your looking for Read, Read, Read Youtube is also very helpful if a pin comes up and you want to see what it can do
That is if you have never played it. Then reseach prices just like you would a car.
This is a good place to deal with people who know whats what. Also if you buy from a known seller you have more of a chance of getting what you
pay for.
Ask questions lots of people here willing to help. They will even help you find the pin you want (Enter Mike W) LOL
Goodluck and make some room. Pins are like rabbits, 1 always seems to multiply
Cheers

 

[mwong168]

Someone call my name??? :twisted: I have helped many people with the purchase of their first machine and the first thing I need to know is how much you are willing to spend? Also do you have any experience or comfort level fixing your own stuff? If you are willing to make the trip from Guelph to Toronto (401/Yonge) you are more then welcome to come by and play my pins and get a feel for what sort of game you like such as stop and go or a game with speed and flow.

 

[Chill]

Welcome to my world! (and PBR )
I had similar bullet points when looking for a first machine. My goal was to keep it under $1000 for a late 80's-to-90's pin. I wound up going against many peoples recommendations, and going in on a 'container pin' for my first machine. (not because I would get ripped off, but rather due to the machine likely requiring a bit of work to get running the way I want it to)
I bought one for $700, but I'll have to let you know how it pans out because I don't have it yet... my pin is currently in the middle of the Atlantic!

Sounds like we're in very similar boats (get it, boats? Because your pin is on a boat...? Never mind!)

$700 would be a beautiful price. I'm looking to be $1000 or less, ideally. I know a good, newer machine costs 4x or more... But I'm new and want to start cheap(ish).

I'd love to know how to get info on a "container pin" - if this is a pin collectors secret, I'm new - I totally understand if people don't want to reveal their sources - but it sounds like a wicked plan. I'd love to hear when it arrives!

As for my comfort level regarding repairs - I'm fairly intelligent, mechanically adequate, technologically savvy - but I'm not an electrician, or a welder. I can replace things that screw/unscrew, I can assemble a pc from barebones components - I've never worked with circuit boards and bare wires.

I think I'd be fine disassembling and cleaning parts, replacing plastics, ramps, bulbs... But I'm not looking to get a pin that I need to strip and rebuild just to play it.

I know $1000 probably won't buy me much - but if anyone in Canada knows, I figured this would be the place!

Thanks for the warm welcome, all!

 

[Chill]

Someone call my name??? :twisted: I have helped many people with the purchase of their first machine and the first thing I need to know is how much you are willing to spend? Also do you have any experience or comfort level fixing your own stuff? If you are willing to make the trip from Guelph to Toronto (401/Yonge) you are more then welcome to come by and play my pins and get a feel for what sort of game you like such as stop and go or a game with speed and flow.

That's a short trip - I'd love to see your collection! I just wouldn't want to waste your time if all your machines are TRON and Avengers - I'd kill for one of those, but I'd also need a good divorce lawyer. (Once she gets used to one machine... THEN I'll look at "upgrading")

EDIT: "Upgrading" my collection, not my wife! LOL - I read that and it could have been taken VERY strangely!

 

[DRANO]

Welcome to PREV... and to pinball!

Conventional wisdom states that you should get a fully functional machine rather than a project. It's impossible to learn when your only machine won't even boot up.

At your price point options get a bit thin, but they do exist. Depending what era of pinball interests you, you may be able to get a nice early solid state / pre-DMD game for under $1K. I have a Black Hole for sale right now from the early 80s and even that is $1500.

Older EM games are an option... if that floats your boat. A little tricker to diagnose and troubleshoot problems on an EM, but they are also extremely simple machines that a beginner may appreciate as a starter.

The best thing is to visit a few collectors and get out to a few locations and see what you like.

Good luck!

 

[mwong168]

I'd love to know how to get info on a "container pin" - if this is a pin collectors secret, I'm new - I totally understand if people don't want to reveal their sources - but it sounds like a wicked plan. I'd love to hear when it arrives!

A container pin is no secret and Gerry has setup 3 successful ones since last summer. Here is his next container that is quickly filling up so check it out:

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=734

If you are new to this hobby my advice is to always get a working machine as your first even if it costs you a little bit more. It will make the experience that much better as opposed to discourage you because some cheap or project pins need a lot of new parts or electrical repairs. If you have no experience troubleshooting or working on boards it can get pretty expensive to outsource these out. New replacement parts are also not cheap and sometimes not even available for certain games and often referred to as "ubontonium" when you can find a nice used one.

The best deals to be had will probably come from someone on here who is looking to thin the heard. If you are after a DMD pin I would say increase your budget to at least $1500 and you could maybe get a Data East game like Lethal Weapon 3? There was one in Guelph 2 weeks ago listed for that much and was working 100% too. Otherwise for $1000 you will either get a very project DMD, average B/C sys11 title, classic Stern, Gottlieb sys80 or an EM as Adriano mentioned.

My door is always open and my friend Elliot just dropped by an hour ago and left my place now at 1:30am pissed off getting his ass handed to him on my Tron. He played while I did some work on my STTNG and finally swapped out the 16 opto board and put in a new GLM replacement and we chatted about his next purchase which is Metallica Premium and looks like my line up just grew by another pin because Elliot has to sell one to add a new one since he is limited on space and funds for the moment with a big home renovation/expansion coming up later this year. Really looking forward to his future plans and helping him fill his basement and the funny thing was we met via kijiji only because we live 5 minutes down the road from each other 2 years ago. He originally told me he had room for 1 pin in his small office till I convinced him to downsize his office desk he could squeeze two in and still be able to slide the playfield glass out. Ever since then he has always maintained two pins and I have been trying to convince him he doesn't need a door to his office and could fit a third pin right outside :twisted:

I invited another new member, Todd, over last week to play my games and even brought me my favorite beer Mill St. Organic (hint, hint) I would make friends with some local collectors on here and go see their games and get some advice on this hobby. They could even possibly go with you to check out potential games you find on kijiji and save you money from buying a wreck!

Good luck and feel free to shoot me a PM anytime.

-Mike

 

[frolic]

I almost bought a LW3 as my first pin for a modest $1400... but it didn't happen and the next week I had bought a Tron NIB..... :lol:

I think if you raise your budget to "under $2000" you will get plenty of options.

One thing though... understand, NONE of us here stopped with 1 pin. so if you go down that road, know what you're in for!

 

[TwilightZone]

My first machine was bought from a guy in Guelph on grange rd. he runs the Guelph league, look on Facebook. He usually hasa game or two for sale at good prices. I think it was his L.W.3 on kijiji.

I suggest a Williams system 11 game for $1000 or less. Their popular, fun and well built.

This is the best advice so far. I always recommend Sys. 11 to new collectors. The challenge is finding a good system 11 at that price point. You will have to be patient.

I would avoid at all cost a container pin. To be perfectly honest, the prices on the container pins are too high. For only a few hundred more, you can actually inspect the game and get a functioning game. I know others will disagree with me, but that's my opinion. If you are patient deals come up every now and again. I don't see the logic in buying a container game. You don't know what you are getting or how bad it is. Initially the prices reflected that, but the prices now are insane. Each to his own.

I would also avoid early SS as your first game. I love games like Gorgar, but the connectors are old and the games always seem to need work. Now if the game has gone over by someone, then that's a different story.

EMs are also a great first entry. Look for a reasonable priced mostly working EM. They come up every now and again. Tune it and enjoy. They seem to work forever as long as they are played. Definately focus on getting one that is working or mostly working. Diving into a non-working EM is not something I would recommend as a first pin.

Keep your eye out for the deals. Recently there was a 911 for $900. That's not a bad entry game and you wouldn't have lost any money. In fact, if you shopped it, you might be able to sell it for $1,200 come Christmas. By then you would have saved some additional money and then....welll welcome to the trade up program

That's how most of "old timers" got our collection going. Buy a game, play the hell out of it, sell it for what we paid or a bit more, add money and buy a better game.

Good luck,
Duane

 

[mwong168]

There are deals sometimes in Buffalo or Detroit so would you be willing to travel a bit to get a machine for the right price or even cross the border? Not saying this is a good deal but definitely fits your budget, DMD and claims to be working.

http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/tag/3737858964.html

 

[REVOLUTION]

You should be able to get a F-14 for around $1k, that's a good starter.. very fast, very flashy.

Make room.

and Welcome!

 

[Menace]

This is the best advice so far. I always recommend Sys. 11 to new collectors. The challenge is finding a good system 11 at that price point. You will have to be patient.

I would avoid at all cost a container pin. To be perfectly honest, the prices on the container pins are too high. For only a few hundred more, you can actually inspect the game and get a functioning game. I know others will disagree with me, but that's my opinion. If you are patient deals come up every now and again. I don't see the logic in buying a container game. You don't know what you are getting or how bad it is. Initially the prices reflected that, but the prices now are insane. Each to his own.

+1
I agree with everything Duane has mentioned here.

D

 

[DRANO]

I think the best advice I've seen is to make a few friends and go out and see some private collections in your area. Starting out on your own as a noob buyer can only get you in trouble.
Pinheads are notoriously hospitable (most of them anyway )
I'd invite you to come check out my collection as it spans most eras and types of pins, but I'm in the middle of a move and won't have evrything set-up again for quite a while.

Take your time, see what you like and be ready to pounce when the right pin shows up on kijiji or the forums.

 

[Chris Bardon]

Even finding a decent DMD for under 2k is a challenge these days, isn't it? There are decent deals to be had though, and as others have said, patience and looking for a collector thinning out their lineup is a great option. Another good idea if you want to make the trip is to come out to see some other collectors, or to hit up a league. The Toronto Pinball League is probably the biggest, but some of the locations are a bit of a haul from Guelph on a monday night. Still, we get as far west as Mississauga, Georgetown, and Ancaster, so there are some possibilities there. There's also the TCPL, which is in the KW/Cambridge area that might be a little closer.

Good luck in your search though-you'll soon find yourself thinking that a $5k machine really isn't that bad

 

[REVOLUTION]

Even finding a decent DMD for under 2k is a challenge these days, isn't it?

Only if you're JUST looking for Bally / WMS. If you venture into DE or Premiere territory there's still some great deals to be had. I'm picking up a WWF: Royal Rumble pin which is a GREAT widebody game for ~$1800

 

[Chill]

There are deals sometimes in Buffalo or Detroit so would you be willing to travel a bit to get a machine for the right price or even cross the border? Not saying this is a good deal but definitely fits your budget, DMD and claims to be working.

http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/tag/3737858964.html

THIS would be ideal - I'd get a kick out of it, I've played it a few times (but not enough to be bored of it), and the condition is playable at least!

Now - If I'm shopping in Buffalo/Detroit, I'll need to talk to someone about the rules of importing, customs/duty, etc....

I'm not brand loyal at ALL - not yet, at least. I just want a good machine at a good price, something to whet my whistle.
.... for now....

If the perfect machine came around at $1250, of course I'd consider it, but I'm starting around the $1000 mark so I don't get overzealous and start looking at $2000 machines... I know I'm likely to push my budget and if I look ~$2K machines, I'll be into territory I'm not prepared for.

For what it's worth, if anyone on PBR sees a cheapy machine that they're not snatching up, consider me the guy that would love a look at your "sloppy seconds"! :lol:

I'm going to definitely start reaching out to the tri-cities pin group - see if I can make some face-to-face hookups in the pin community as well. You never know....

Thanks all! This group has been super-welcoming already. I really appreciate the friendliness!

 

[mwong168]

Here is another pin that fits your budget and local in Georgetown from Nick Angel most likely. Seems like a fun game when I played it on the Pinball Arcade on my phone and lots going on for that era of game.

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell ... Z474043957

 

[mwong168]

I just posted this Gold Wings for $600 in my Not Mine thread. You might want to go have a look at it and if it works and in good shape a decent deal and try to negotiate for a little bit less. It has an interesting layout which I am not surprised since the designer is John Trudeau (not a bad thing by the way) and an air siren from the factory too!

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell ... Z474383268

I think you stand a decent chance should you decide later you want to sell and get something else with minimal loss unless the machine turns out to be a basket case. I am sure other people who have owned this era of Gottlieb will chime in on potential problems you may anticipate or things to look for if you go see it.

 

[TwilightZone]

I think you stand a decent chance should you decide later you want to sell and get something else with minimal loss unless the machine turns out to be a basket case. I am sure other people who have owned this era of Gottlieb will chime in on potential problems you may anticipate or things to look for if you go see it.

Agree 100%.

I've owned some Gottliebs of this generation and I have found them extremly reliable. There are quite a few solid titles that don't get alot of love. I cann't speak about Gold Wings as I've never played one. Still seems reasonable at $600 and, like Mike said, you won't lose on it if you decide it's not for you.

Good luck,
Duane