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Off to see the wizard...

mwong168

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Nov 14, 2012
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I heard from our great revolution leader Brock that he just played WOZ in the SB showroom. I called up EJB (aka Elliot) who called SB in case this was Brock's 12 21 2012 end of the world joke and they confirmed and unboxed it this morning. So get your ruby red slippers on and check what you have all been anxiously been waiting 24 months for :cool:
 

SquidVicious

Member
Nov 15, 2012
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I'm going to try to get by on Saturday or Sunday and give it a whirl along with the new Stern .. it'll be interesting to see where the code is .. the changes I saw between the PPE shoe and EXPO were relatively small .. hoping for a much more evolved set of rules.
 

superjackpot

Active Member
Nov 19, 2012
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Mississauga, ON
I was there this afternoon and gave the game about a half hour of play. The WOZECLE was on display. I believe the WOZ code has not changed although this was my first in person look.

Game modes don't really do anything. Multiball starts but there aren't any jackpot shots. RESCUE on the mini PF didn't do much; house spins on the other mini PF (this is nice - better than I expected) but I never completed that. The ball locks work well including pass throughs.

Ball flow is decent. Orbits through the pops exit nicely on the right. A right orbit can reach the pops, or stop at the magnet for the winged monkey lift. Pops are strong and look great. The centre VUK is fast. The winged monkey mech delivery to the mini PF was decently quick. About right I guess. Much faster than the JM glove, or the TAF hand for example. Flippers are strong enough to get up the centre ramp, no issue there. The flipper buttons themselves were stiff - extra, extra firm. This must be a strong spring in the button housing, or more likely the leaf switch inside (which I could see from above) that is applying too much pressure. The progress lights like TIN MAN, or SCARECROW do advance but nothing happens when completed. No question, code is but a basic shell. The slightly raised disc rollover switches for each of TM, SC and Lion did alter the ball path on occasion. It's just how it is but I'd have rather had targets to hit for advancing those characters.The witch melted after a few hits but then nothing much happened. She's encased in acrylic and much like the sneeze guard in POTC I'd remove that if I could and take my chances. The magnet in from of her (not visible) did twist the occasional ball passing by.

The LED BG screen was as expected. No surprises or disappointments. Lots of green background, nice font, showing clips from the movie. Gives onlookers something to watch.

The State Fair pop was more effective than I thought it would be. Hits to the one of 5 switches changed the corresponding insert light colour. Completing the lights did not give me my ball back (code) but the concept is excellent. One time the pop shot the ball towards the centre post causing it to rebound back onto the PF.

The cabinet finish is slick. Feels like a PF. I'd bet it's less likely to scratch. The topper is meh. Laser etched acrylic lit in green. Should have been glass. The shaker motor was in the cab but I never noticed it during gameplay. Plastics look 'ink jetted' as Brock put it. They don't seem to have an underlying white layer but I think with how GI was done, this is not an issue.

The lighting is excellent!! LEDs not only vary in colour, but colours vary in intensity. This eliminates the in-your-face stark brightness that led lighting can exhibit. Cascading lights are done well with smooth transitions. For someone who is not a fan of LEDs, this implementation I liked very much. Oh, and the frosted light tubes for the GI - sweet. I can see this as a mod extending to other pins.

It's hard to judge the game on looks alone. I'm not a fan of the Wizard of Oz movie but the game looks fantastic, no question. As for game play... I want to see a working ruleset. One thing I did take away was that the regular version would be fine given the PFs are supposed to be identical. The SB price for the regular WOZ is stickered at $6590. Other than the 'mirrored' BG and perhaps the clearcoated cabinet, I don't see much more value in the LE - unless you got in early for a good price.

You've all seen pics, here are a couple of the inside you may not have.

Barry

Toronto-20121221-00647.jpg


Toronto-20121221-00648.jpg
 

Jokercyclone

New Member
Nov 19, 2012
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Thanks for posting. a really good review for the people who have not played it yet. It sounds like there are no issues with it except the code and they seem to be taking there time to get it right so looks all good.
 

Chris Bardon

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Nov 15, 2012
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I still really like the look of the build quality on this game. Beefy rails, boards in the bottom, and I notice that they're using spade connectors on the coils-interesting choice.
 

EJB

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Nov 17, 2012
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Played the game for about half hour today and I'm really torn (I already have a deposit in at starburst). Game looks incredible and I do enjoy the layout. It's obvious that jjp took a ton of care when making this game. However......I just couldn't get past the feel of the flippers. I had no trouble when shooting the ramp but the flippers just felt.....sluggish. I know that jack mentioned user adjustable flipper strength but I wish I could have experienced that while playing today. It's weird, but if I could have had the flipper strength of my XM in WOZ, the game would have been perfect to me. I know that it's a widebody, which makes the game a little slower, but I have played many widebody pins and have always been happy with the speed/feel of those.......so just hoping that the menu adjustments really do make a difference. I've been excited for this pin for over a year and now it feels like a bit of a gamble. Still excited though and hope jack comes through!
 

Beafraid

Active Member
Dec 13, 2012
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Ball gets trapped behind the witch's door also..happened to me after playing for about 15 minutes...
 

luch

Super Member
Nov 18, 2012
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played woz today at playdium , found it to have weak flippers and score points about 10 points at a time there will be no 800 million grand champ on this game , owner said jersey jack wanted to bring scores back to the 1960's with 10k to be high score , seriously 3 balls and score 8,000 . overall quality is very good and solid , widebody is nice , lcd/led screen is the the future . would i pay 8k for the le , don't know only time will tell if this holds up to collectors playability .
 

Chris Bardon

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Nov 15, 2012
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Finally got a chance to try this out yesterday, and it doesn't really play all that well. I knew the software wasn't finished, but the way this played, it felt like it wasn't even started. There was a multiball, but that's about it-not much to shoot at all. The upper flipper also didn't seem to do a whole lot. It looks to me like a way to shoot the crystal ball through the bumpers (risky), but not much else. The witch can get hit from anything, so there aren't many shots you can *only* make with that extra flipper. Both the mini playfields worked, but neither did much-house spins, door opens, but that's about it. Again, with no rules, it's amazing how quickly a pin becomes boring :) As for the rest of the layout, it seemed pretty evil, and that left outlane is going to be a real problem. Lots of drains down that side.

I'm really not sure why JJP would put this out into showrooms (and on location?) like this. It's obviously not a complete game, and honestly the code is worse than what Stern released on X-Men back in the summer (which had tons of bugs, but at least it DID something). I can understand people wanting to get a look at the game, but had they waited another month or two, they could have shown off a much better rules package. Anyway, irrelevant since I'm not getting one, but what I played didn't inspire me to go put down a deposit. Maybe once the game is "done" that'll change, since software can make or break a pin.
 

frolic

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Nov 19, 2012
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I get nervous when Keith wrote that he's still trying to control the LEDs through software. This thing could be a long ways off still.
 

necro_nemesis

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Nov 20, 2012
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I assume he's trying to achieve something more than just on/off and mixing of RGB to get a spectrum of colours. The pulsed solution used for providing 8 levels of lighting on an incendescent lamp was an elegant solution to manage power handling by taking advantage of the inherent properties of the lamp but leds operate in a very narrow non-linear voltage range in order to dim them. Add to that the fact that different coloured LEDs operate at varying voltages. This was a challenge I faced when I designed the circuit for the candle controller board on my SS. I wanted the candles to pulse vice flick on and off and had to tailor the voltage curve to the narrow operating range of the specific LEDs I was using. Luckily my solution was analogue and dealt with a selection of hardware in circuit. Trying to achieve that through coding might not be so simple. All in all it sounds like a simple problem but he's likely going in a new direction with LEDs through software and trying to code for hardware that may have not fully accounted for the nuances of working with RGB LEDs. Likely a significant challenge.
 

jooky

Member
Nov 18, 2012
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Mississauga, ON
I also stopped by over the weekend. Got to try WOZ out. Definitely a good looking game. Not much substance to it yet. One thing I noticed myself was the feel of the machine and the flippers. It just felt... different. All recent Sterns feel similar in flipper action and feel - very solid, but WOZ felt kinda different to me, not sure if better or worse. Just... slightly different. Maybe it was the widebody? Also the flippers seem to stick at times and the LCD animations would disappear occasionally.

Also got to try out Avengers Pro which was a treat as well.

Anyways here's yet another pic because its such a gosh darn pretty game.
 

Chris Bardon

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Nov 15, 2012
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I get nervous when Keith wrote that he's still trying to control the LEDs through software. This thing could be a long ways off still.

Really...I figured this would have been figured out long ago in the O/S that they were working on. From what I understand, WOZ is basically running on a linux based PC, correct? I kind of figured that part of the delay in getting the game to market was the time it would take to create a pinball operating system and programming environment that they could use later on to rapidly create new games and iterate on software. Something like lighting, assuming that they wanted to standardize on RGB LEDs, I thought would have been one of the things you'd abstract away from the start. Get it working at the operating system, and then when writing the game logic you could just do something like: SetLight(ID, R,G,B,Brighness); Same goes for control of coils, motors, magnets etc-start with a driver model for each of those when designing the OS and API, and then your game code becomes a lot simpler and safer. For example, EnergizeCoil() could lock a coil on (if that's what you wanted to do in the rules), but the OS could automatically shut it off if it was on for more than, say, 10 seconds at high power to keep it from burning out. Makes it safer if they were going to eventually open source games (which was something that was on the table at one point, wasn't it)?

Anyway, it'd be interesting to see how this is all put together. I wonder if they're trying to use an existing high level/scripting language for their rules (like with P-ROC), or coming up with something completely custom?
 

Ancient Games

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Nov 15, 2012
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Played it today at Starburst/Playdium.

Well..it looks nice I have to admit. At first I thought the screen was a great idea. Then it quit on me. Nothing for about 1 minute. That would piss me off if I shelled out that much and it did it within a month of owning it, or even the first year.

The flipper buttons were solid and had a click to them at about half way which resulted in the buttons sticking and the flippers getting stuck in the hold position. Is the spring in the button or is it a leaf style/opto? If so yank those springs out.

Needs tweeking.

And the lights are constantly flashing. Kinda difficult to plan your shots when you don't know what all the different colors mean. I only had 3 games.

Do I want one. No. Would I trade a SFII pin for one. Yes. :)
 

frolic

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Nov 19, 2012
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No one has mentioned the monitor dropping out on any other review on Pinside so it must just be a defect with the demo at Starburst. To be expected I guess when they're making one at a time, shit happens.

There has to be a reason why though the code has not been updated. It makes no sense for them to keep demoing something so bare bones. That they have finished code that they are sitting on to push out to the first buyers doesn't make sense. They need to be generating excitement and SALES right now. So I do believe that there are issues, possibly with those LEDs or something else.
 

Slam_Tilt

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Nov 20, 2012
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I think this was JJP's biggest mistake putting out these demo machines. Sure the machine looks nice, we all new it would, but with absolutely no code it give people the wrong impressions. For those who didn't pre-order, will likely never order and for those who did, will likely make them rethink their decision and back out. This is a lot worse than Stern putting out the Xmen with the code nowhere near finished.
 

REVOLUTION

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Slam_Tilt said:
I think this was JJP's biggest mistake putting out these demo machines. Sure the machine looks nice, we all new it would, but with absolutely no code it give people the wrong impressions. For those who didn't pre-order, will likely never order and for those who did, will likely make them rethink their decision and back out. This is a lot worse than Stern putting out the Xmen with the code nowhere near finished.

i agree.. this was a poor move. Honestly, this is like watching an unfinished, rough cut of a blockbuster movie from start to finish. Sure it's a treat to get a sneak peek at something that's bound to be amazing.. but it does take a lot of excitement out of seeing the final product.

Keith is a master programmer.. but like all insane artists, he'll never truly be finished this game. He's also a perfectionist and takes a LONG time with his code. I remember reading his rants on RGP about how Stern got upset with him not meeting his deadlines. (Look at WoF for example).

- B
 

Menace

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Nov 14, 2012
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It is interesting to ponder what Jack's intentions were with putting the demo's out with such a limited software release.... Only time will tell how this plays out.

D
 

EJB

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Nov 17, 2012
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I just opted out of my preorder from starburst. Went to play the game a few times and wasn't convinced it was a pin I needed to be in on at the start. I think that there is a great cance that this game will be a huge success and I sincerely hope it is. The good thing is that jjp Is planning to continue production until everyone that wants one gets one......so I can get a standard later on if I decide that I love the game. It does look incredible and I wish jjp the best!