Pinball Pirates and Profiteers (re: R&B kijiji)

[spiroagnew]

I believe this topic may have been covered when the whole Maverick debacle when nuclear about a year ago (and some time before that with a TZ, many good jpegs came out of that one), but its a heady topic that gets people fired up and I don't think its been talked about on this forum (I guess 'cause we're drama-free?). If you hate rehashing the same-old "what if" scenarios and/or Rocky and Bullwinkle, you should probably just move along to the next thread...

Assume for a moment that the kijiji Rocky & Bullwinkle did end up selling for $450 to some pinball pirate who decides to relist it for $1000 without fixing any "malfunctions" (or only fixing minor "malfunctions") to make some quick dollars. Obviously, its a douche move, no question, but if I decided that $1000 was still a good price for a machine on my radar, would I be labelled a douche too? Would I be a party to the downfall of the Canadian collector community? Would the mere purchase of the game from said pirate be a statement of "I condone this profiteering practice"? Does it matter the title of the machine in question (re: rarity)?

 

[movingpictures]

oh hey whats up guys

 

[REVOLUTION]

Re: Pinball Pirates and Profiteers (re: R

That's pinball, baby!

 

[mwong168]

Obviously, its a douche move, no question, but if I decided that $1000 was still a good price for a machine on my radar, would I be labelled a douche too?

I don't see why you would be labelled a douche too unless there was still some meat on the bone left and you decide to to do a quick flip on the game for doing nothing :lol:

It is your money and if you feel that you are still getting good value and/or not feeling ripped off and most importantly it removes a game from your radar then go for it! If you do not buy it somebody else will and doesn't change the fact that the seller will be ready to chase down the next deal to flip.

 

[spiroagnew]

oh hey whats up guys

This bloke's itty-bitty medal gets me every time!

 

[mwong168]

Re: Pinball Pirates and Profiteers (re: R

That's pinball, baby!

Holy flippage, Batman! :lol:

 

[Vengeance]

I'm personally looking forward to the crash.

It won't happen this year or next year, but I guarantee within the next 10 years the floor will drop out from the market, there is no way way it can sustain itself at current levels. With prices the way they are, hobbists will burn out, and once retirement hits/priorities change we will see a sell off and things will go back to normal.

You will have the naysayers, but look at EM's and SS machines, while they have gained some steam, eventually that generation of players moves on and the price correction takes affect.

Then I can get back to just playing pinball and not having to worry about how much money I have stacked up in my basement.

 

[frolic]

To the OP, eventually that R&B will find its way to market value. SOMEONE is going to make money off of it, somewhere, if it sells for cheap. It will find its way.

So, I hold no ill will towards any flipper. I've got better things to worry about. I just make sure when I buy a game, that I'm not overpaying. Other than that, who cares.

 

[movingpictures]

I'm personally looking forward to the crash.

+ 1

We are already starting to see Williams and Stern 'A' titles plateau and even drop in price from this time last year.
There is only so much money to go around, and with JJP and LE's costing upwards of $8k, many 'collectors' are liquidating classics to afford the flavor of the month. Add to that the recent influx of container games, and you have a situation where supply no longer outweighs demand and prices fall.

All in all it's a great time to be a pinhead, let the good times roll!!! :lol:

 

[brad808]

Re: Pinball Pirates and Profiteers (re: R&B kijiji)

I don't think the rocky sold I think the guy changed the price. different price, same address and same other games for sale under the same ad.

I honestly think they got way too many emails and realized they listed too low.


Sent from my Nexus 4

 

[Honey Badger]

I disagree, prices on A list titles have stabilized but the pinball community keeps growing. Look at Pinburgh and Papa increases over the last 2 years. I don't see a whole lot of DMD's up for sale and when they are up they sell right away unless overpriced. The market will not continue to grow at the pace we have seen the last few years but it will still slowly climb for DMD's. I agree with Adam that EM's and SS will stay at current value or go down a bit. Stern will have to stop raising their prices though if they wanna sell games because the high end buyers will run out of cash or space. Bottom line is most A list titles (excluding the big 5) will end up being 5-6k holding their value or slowly increasing and B and C list titles will climb cause if people want a DMD who are getting into the hobby, they will look at those titles.

Back to the original purpose of this thread, people who T-Glover games all the time are known in the community.

 

[Honey Badger]

oh hey whats up guys

Oh and I laugh my ass off everytime I see that pic :lol:

 

[Vengeance]

I disagree, prices on A list titles have stabilized but the pinball community keeps growing. Look at Pinburgh and Papa increases over the last 2 years. I don't see a whole lot of DMD's up for sale and when they are up they sell right away unless overpriced. The market will not continue to grow at the pace we have seen the last few years but it will still slowly climb for DMD's. I agree with Adam that EM's and SS will stay at current value or go down a bit. Stern will have to stop raising their prices though if they wanna sell games because the high end buyers will run out of cash or space. Bottom line is most A list titles (excluding the big 5) will end up being 5-6k holding their value or slowly increasing and B and C list titles will climb cause if people want a DMD who are getting into the hobby, they will look at those titles.

Back to the original purpose of this thread, people who T-Glover games all the time are known in the community.

It's naive to think pinball can continue in this trend, yes competitive pinball has grown by leaps and bounds in the last few years, but everything has a plateau and then a crash. It has already happened countless times in pinball and will happen again.

Pinball is a luxury item at best and when push comes to shove and an ageing population of owners gets to a point where money is more important the owning machines and things will start to shift the other way.

It's the nature of every market.

 

[Luckydogg420]

Re: Pinball Pirates and Profiteers (re: R&B kijiji)

That R&B game was posted for 25 min. And had 92 views. A hour later it was at 195 views. The next day the same malfunctioning machine was posted for $2200, from the same guy. He obviously didn't realize what he had for sale.

And if he gets 2k for it I'm sure he'll be happy, still not a bad price if its minor problems.

 

[Vengeance]

It's naive to think pinball can continue in this trend, yes competitive pinball has grown by leaps and bounds in the last few years, but everything has a plateau and then a crash. It has already happened countless times in pinball and will happen again.

Pinball is a luxury item at best and when push comes to shove and an ageing population of owners gets to a point where money is more important the owning machines and things will start to shift the other way.

It's the nature of every market.

The only thing I could see changing the trend would be if PAPA succeeds in getting pinball onto TV, and I don't mean PAPATV, I mean if ESPN or some other network picked up and started putting pinball on TV, then I could see pinball continuing to gain in popularity and things getting worse then they already are.

 

[TwilightZone]

That R&B game was posted for 25 min. And had 92 views. A hour later it was at 195 views. The next day the same malfunctioning machine was posted for $2200, from the same guy. He obviously didn't realize what he had for sale.

And if he gets 2k for it I'm sure he'll be happy, still not a bad price if its minor problems.

And this is why pin prices will continue to increase for some time. $2K is WAY overpriced for a R&B with issues. It could be had for $1,200 not that long ago.

I agree with Adam that prices will eventually come down. When I don't know, but eventually they should come down. I remember when Williams closed, MM jumped quickly to between $10K to $12K USD. Then over a few months, it came down to $5.5 USD and those folks that bought at the high point must have been sweating! Slowly the price has increased and MM is at the $10K to $12K range again. Step back folks! That is nucking futs!!!! I have to catch myself every now and again. "Oh $6K for game X -- that's a good price". That's a decent used car, folks. If we stop buying, the prices will come down. I'm just really, really happy I'm pretty close to done and the only games I'm looking at are the C titles.

I have to shake my head when I see prices today. I don't mean to call you out, Luckydog, I'm simply pointing out what collectors feel is "fair" is inflated and seems to be continuing and I'm as guilty as the next guy. This should change eventually.

Back on topic, I really don't care what the previous guy paid. As long as I feel I am getting a fair deal, I'm happy. Of course, I would rather buy the game at $450, in this example, but if I really want a game...cough...cough Godzilla and I'm paying more than the previous buyer....such is life. I can always pass on the game. No one has a gun to my head to buy it. It all comes down to what one feels is "fair" given this market.

Duane

 

[mwong168]

I have to catch myself every now and again. "Oh $6K for game X -- that's a good price". That's a decent used car, folks.

Just in time for summer guys, for less then $6000 you can have this beauty --> viewtopic.php?f=25&t=984

Another disturbing trend I am seeing is how a particular game (not title) inflates in value by passing through the hands of a few collectors in a short period of time who have done absolutely nothing to them except over pay each time. That is another thing that is bad is when someone with lots of money and no patience to wait out for a good deal on a particular title over pays just to get what they want. This disrupts the market because now people who own that title now think because one person got it they can get it too, this is also known as the pinside effect :evil:

 

[Vengeance]

Just in time for summer guys, for less then $6000 you can have this beauty --> http://pinballrevolution.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=984

Another disturbing trend I am seeing is how a particular game (not title) inflates in value by passing through the hands of a few collectors in a short period of time who have done absolutely nothing to them except over pay each time. That is another thing that is bad is when someone with lots of money and no patience to wait out for a good deal on a particular title over pays just to get what they want. This disrupts the market because now people who own that title now think because one person got it they can get it too, this is also known as the pinside effect :evil:

Forget that, nothing pisses me off more then people who try and add shipping and taxes onto the cost of every pinball they buy.

If you pay $200 to ship a game and 13% at the border, that is your issue, it doesn't all of the sudden raise the value of the machine because YOU paid to ship it from across the border.

That is like saying every time you buy something from any vendor that it is now automatically worth 13% more.

 

[Luckydogg420]

Re: Pinball Pirates and Profiteers (re: R&B kijiji)

It's hard for noobie like me to judge. I've been in the hobby for less the two years and its increasingly hard to find any DMD game for $1500 let alone a good one. I've never seen the dime a dozen prices that collectors reminisce about.

It's frustrating when you watch kijiji and the same machine comes on three times in a couple months, or the same guy seems to have an endless supply of recently shopped games, that were posted the week before as "broken, just needing a fuse" and the price is now $500 more.

My hope is to grow my collection, I don't wanna screw anyone in the process, and don't wanna be taken along the way. But when your scraping together nickels and dimes to buy $1500 games then it really doesn't matter if MM is a $10k or $12k game it's still overpriced to me.

 

[meegis]

And this is why pin prices will continue to increase for some time. $2K is WAY overpriced for a R&B with issues. It could be had for $1,200 not that long ago.

Not that long ago being 2-3 years minimum.

I picked up my R&B more recently, and trust me when I say, if it is playable, it will be 2K+ based on condition. You might look at one for $1800, and it could be a good deal, but again +/- 10% is just a market game.