Price Guides and State of the Market

[KING BLING !]

If younger generations (under 35-40) don't get into pinball in a bigger way, I think used pinball machine prices will definitely come down big time in the future. I'm encouraged to see younger people playing at places like Tilt in Toronto but do they love the game enough to own machines at home like we all do?

Sadly I KNOW your correct on the age demographic and how it relates to pinballs. Had a house party of about 15 people few weeks ago....other then 5 mins of play or saying "oh that is cool" was about the interst...one thing they all thought being unfamiliar with the hobby was how in Hell could any pinball be worth more $2000 tops. Guests were 30-50 yrs of age. As hobbyists pass on so will the high prices. Even when I had a much larger home and hosted 100+ people the sheer lack of interest with painfully obvious.

 

[KilaOhm]

Sadly I KNOW your correct on the age demographic and how it relates to pinballs. Had a house party of about 15 people few weeks ago....other then 5 mins of play or saying "oh that is cool" was about the interst...one thing they all thought being unfamiliar with the hobby was how in Hell could any pinball be worth more $2000 tops. Guests were 30-50 yrs of age. As hobbyists pass on so will the high prices. Even when I had a much larger home and hosted 100+ people the sheer lack of interest with painfully obvious.

I’ve noticed that as well. My guests are usually good for a game or 2 and then generally uninterested.

 

[ZoomZoomBoomBoom]

That's because pinball is too hard.
It's what kills pinball on the whole.
I have watched people blow through $10 in tokens at my store in under 10 min.
I actually feel really bad for them because I know they are leaving with a bad experience.
The difficulty is so extreme that people don't even get a chance to understand what is going on and what they are supposed to do.
It is a huge problem with pinball that none of the manufacturers seem aware of.
And they are only making the shots harder.
The first manufacturer that makes an easy machine, with easy to understand rules and easy shots, will strike gold.

 

[KilaOhm]

That's because pinball is too hard.
It's what kills pinball on the whole.
I have watched people blow through $10 in tokens at my store in under 10 min.
I actually feel really bad for them because I know they are leaving with a bad experience.
The difficulty is so extreme that people don't even get a chance to understand what is going on and what they are supposed to do.
It is a huge problem with pinball that none of the manufacturers seem aware of.
And they are only making the shots harder.
The first manufacturer that makes an easy machine, with easy to understand rules and easy shots, will strike gold.

I agree to a degree, but I think manufacturers are aware. The was an EM eats quarters compared to a modern stern is no comparison. Games have become more forgiving over the years with ball saves and kick backs etc. Ball times have never been longer than they are now. I suppose somebody needs to come up with the pinball equivalent to the bumpers that bowling alleys use for beginners.

 

[roar]

That's because pinball is too hard.
It's what kills pinball on the whole.
I have watched people blow through $10 in tokens at my store in under 10 min.
I actually feel really bad for them because I know they are leaving with a bad experience.
The difficulty is so extreme that people don't even get a chance to understand what is going on and what they are supposed to do.
It is a huge problem with pinball that none of the manufacturers seem aware of.
And they are only making the shots harder.
The first manufacturer that makes an easy machine, with easy to understand rules and easy shots, will strike gold.

You're the operator, so I know you know this, but why not increase ball save timers, increase match %, add extra balls at low values, if your average ball/game times are really low, make them more then a 3 ball game? There are mechanisms in the game to help with this, where you can measure ball times, tweak things, measure again, tweak some more, until you get the sweet spot.

 

[ZoomZoomBoomBoom]

You're the operator, so I know you know this, but why not increase ball save timers, increase match %, add extra balls at low values, if your average ball/game times are really low, make them more then a 3 ball game? There are mechanisms in the game to help with this, where you can measure ball times, tweak things, measure again, tweak some more, until you get the sweet spot.

That's not really the issue as much as the shots themselves are too hard.
Compare the ramp/ shot widths from Williams games to modern day pins.
Newer games have more shots, at the expense of narrower shots.
I think that's why games like Adams Family, T2, Demolition Man etc are still very popular- easy, wide ramps and shots and much simpler rules to understand.

 

[MrMikeman]

That's not really the issue as much as the shots themselves are too hard.
Compare the ramp/ shot widths from Williams games to modern day pins.
Newer games have more shots, at the expense of narrower shots.
I think that's why games like Adams Family, T2, Demolition Man etc are still very popular- easy, wide ramps and shots and much simpler rules to understand.

Yeah most of us get so wrapped around these modern deep rulesets that we forget that for the non-pinhead person just walking up to a pin, it must be so intimidating. Flip when the ball is on the flipper is about all they can understand. Narrow shots (Labyrinth is SO hard because of this) prevent any sort of meaningful progress in the game which means the person never understood what they were doing. Fun for a few minutes but certainly no feeling that you should go back for more if you didn't "get it".

These are not the ppl buying games though. It's a difficult line between too complex and too easy/boring.

The manufacturers are certainly making games that cater to the pin crowds but they alienate newcomers at the same time.

 

[kool1]

That's not really the issue as much as the shots themselves are too hard.
Compare the ramp/ shot widths from Williams games to modern day pins.
Newer games have more shots, at the expense of narrower shots.
I think that's why games like Adams Family, T2, Demolition Man etc are still very popular- easy, wide ramps and shots and much simpler rules to understand.

Games are harder for sure. I think any location should have a few older games or easier modern games like Scooby Doo, AFMr or CCr.

Difficulty is definitely part of the problem, but I think more modern themes and wider distribution at locations would help also. Imagine what a Mario pinball with JJP lighting and some cool mechs could do at Dave and Busters or Rec Room in terms of drawing a new crowd?

 

[KilaOhm]

Games are harder for sure. I think any location should have a few older games or easier modern games like Scooby Doo, AFMr or CCr.

Difficulty is definitely part of the problem, but I think more modern themes and wider distribution at locations would help also. Imagine what a Mario pinball with JJP lighting and some cool mechs could do at Dave and Busters or Rec Room in terms of drawing a new crowd?

I was just playing the Mario pin at an arcade in Chatham the other day thinking the exact same thing.

 

[Fifty]

That won't stop them. Seems a lot of <35 peeps can't tell the difference or prioritize between what they need (food & shelter) and what they want (entertainment). Can't afford food or gas but hey at least they have the latest iPhone!

Yes I know it's not everybody in that age bracket that is like that. Seems fairly common though.

This isn't a problem. Employers are having a hard enough time finding new hires that expect less that 6 figures on their start date. It's easy to buy a house and pins if your starting salary is over $100K and you'll have plenty of time to play with 8 weeks vacation.