ST vs WH2O

[dos.reboot]

Thinking about shaking up the collection a bit and was wondering what your thoughts are between these two games. It's kind of a strange comparison, but both seemto be good 'flow' games and both are on my 'maybe I want' list.

I typically like unique playfield designs and great code design (TSPP, FGY, TRON, AFM, IJ) since those two things in combination tend to minimize turnover for me.

 

[TwilightZone]

Are you thinking Stern Star Trek or Star Trek Next Generation? If Stern, might be hard to make a call at this time given the code isn't complete from what I have heard.

Cheers,
Duane

 

[dos.reboot]

Are you thinking Stern Star Trek or Star Trek Next Generation? If Stern, might be hard to make a call at this time given the code isn't complete from what I have heard.

Cheers,
Duane

It's the Stern ST I'm considering. I saw the Bowen PAPA video with v1.3 and it's looks about 2/3rd complete. So far the shot variation from mode to mode plus the stackability looks promising. But you're right, it's far from complete.

I'm not all that familiar with WH2O's rules, so I guess the better question then is what other pin is it most similar to in terms of code deepness and lastibility. Any insight is appreciated.

 

[WARLOCK]

STTNG is a great pin. So is No Fear. Both Steve Ritchie pins. Just like ST.
WH2O is a great pin as well. Nordman design. I have owed all 3 of these.
I still have STTNG and WH2O. They are not leaving. I have had No Fear x2.
I still want it back. The point I am making is this.

If you want a new Stern, buy ST and be happy with it and hope for the best
with code updates.

If you want a Bally/Williams DMD, then play a bunch of them and decide
what it is you like.

I love Star Trek theme, and Ritchie pins. Love Nordman too.

You decide in the end. Good luck with the choice.
Cheers.

 

[TwilightZone]

WH20 is an awesome game. It's got fantastic rules that are easy to understand, yet provide alot of different scenarios and strategy.

The main goal is to advance to Wet Willy's. You do this by completing the lite shots and advance through the river. I like how the lite shots force you to play the entire playfield at some point.

While advancing up the river is the main goal, there are other scoring opportunities and diversions along the way. You can hit the targets to eventually lite Big Foot Hot Foot. There are whirl pool awards: whirlpool challenge, man overboard, lite extra ball, advance raft, mystery canyon, and 5x playfield. Since you can see the whirl pool award being earning it, you can select when to "use" a given award and this adds a great deal of strategy to the game. For example, you might time 5x playfield after locking 2 balls and having it lite for a third.

Multiball is also a blast, the jackbot increases if you hit the side ramp as the ball is served for MB. If you get one ball up the ramp 1x jackpot, 2 up the ramp 2x jackpot, 3 up the ramp 3x jackpot....AND if you have started 5x playfield....WOW! That's quite a rush and not an easy accomplishment. I don't think I have managed all that.

It's a really good game. Plus, you can practically rebuild it if you want an awesome example of the game. Pretty much all the parts are available: ramps, playfields, plastics, boulders, etc. It is a very, very expensive game to restore, but worth it.

Cheers,
Duane

 

[spiroagnew]

You can play WH2O in digital format through the Pinball Arcade on just about any digital device known to man. It will be able to give you a taste of the ruleset and gameplay if you can't locate someone who has the real thing for a test drive. Probably not the best idea to base a purchase on the play of a computer game, but if that's all you got, I say use any resource available...

I'm a WH2O owner...awesome game. Deep rules for those that want them...but also fun shots to hit for the inexperienced player. DMD animations are well done, too.

 

[mwong168]

Well I know Gwen has owned a STTNG before because she sold me a GLM 16 opto board she had lying around which use to be in her game earlier this year. I've owned both WH20 and STTNG in the past but sadly both are gone now.

My WH20 was a player's condition game which was in decent shape and I enjoyed playing it for a little over a year but moved it out in favor to try something new which was Tron. Had it been in nicer condition such as Adriano's freshly restored WH20 I probably would have kept it. When I first got it I didn't quite get the game and found myself constantly shooting up the middle to get to the upper playfield to try to shoot for Insanity Falls or else if I missed I would just collect RIVER letter. Game got boring pretty fast for me and it wasn't until my friend Elliot and Adriano explained to me what Duane did a great job of describing the game's rules above that I really started to enjoy it a lot more. I'll tell you when you setup 5x Playfield and start multiball the satisfaction you get of hitting that Insanity Falls shot three times is a rush. I've never been to the Wizard mode before and I know people who have owned the game for years never have either so the depth and challenge is definitely there. Perhaps Adam can do a analysis of this game next otherwise you can watch this PAPA tutorial by Bowen to get an idea of the game play and wonderful flow.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9zVJLyIf-F8[/youtube]

My reasons for getting rid of STTNG was because I needed the space for another game on my wish list which was Shadow. STTNG was never really on my radar nor did I have desire to own one because of the theme (never watched anything ST in my life), design (never was and still not a big fan of SR games) and maintenance nightmare (experienced a few odd issues and all veteran owners told me was Welcome to STTNG ownership ) For these reasons I avoided even playing this game for 3 years till it came out on Pinball Arcade last December. I had so much fun playing it that I had to go play WARLOCK's and see how the real thing measures up. It did not disappoint and a month later I found a nice one and the same day I bought it home I also brought home a HUO SM! In the end I decided that I like the SM theme over STTNG and know that of the two STTNG will be much easier to re-acquire down the road.

Now I had a chance to play STPro in the SB showroom within the first few days it was setup and even bumped into Slam_Tilt and his wife there too. I really liked the shots and the fast flow definitely felt like a SR design although it was the very first revision of the code. I didn't really like the shot up the middle where the ball locks as it feels sort of sloppy when released by the controlled drop target but fortunately it didn't lead to any SDTM drains. The delta ramp shot feels just like the one on STTNG as well as the Venom ramp on SM It would have cool if SR was able to add in his trademark SR upper magnet which helps stop the ball to set up another shot to the upper loop. I think once again like the past few Stern titles, STPro will be better $ value over STPremium and/or STLE. Unless you are a hardcore trekkie I just can't see spending almost double for STLE when you could probably buy a nice STTNG for much less and get more game features such as the cannons, borg ship which shoots a ball at you, 3 cellar holes on the top half of the playfield leading to the SR patented under playfield ball delivery system. If this game didn't have that every shot to the cellar would feel like the whirlpool shot on WH20 with the 2-3 sec delay for the ball to travel from one side of the game to the other.

Personally, I would say if you have a chance at owning a nice condition WH20 for under $4000 with nice ramps, no cracked plastics and decent cab with very little fade or knicks I would say go for that first. There will always be NIB STPro or used ones that will hit the market in the future.

 

[mwong168]

Classic Game Room Review of STPro just posted

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zaePMq7zvLg[/youtube]

 

[dos.reboot]

ST seems to follow Stern's formulaic less-is-more pf design. Even the led lighting makes it seem like all their pins are starting to look alike. As a trekkie, I was hoping for a more complicated design but this is the only option since I found STTNG playability to be more like work and less like fun (it's not easy for me to nudge a 350 lbs pin for a 20+ min game!)

WH2O looks like fun, though I'm still not sure if it's worth trading a game for it in a 5-6 pin lineup. It;s ruleset strategy is pretty cool and unique enough to probably consider it over ST at this time.

 

[mwong168]

I believe you live close to the US border Gwen so maybe you might want to pop by Marvin's in SE Michigan and check out the STLE they just setup.

http://marvin3m.com

 

[dos.reboot]

I believe you live close to the US border Gwen so maybe you might want to pop by Marvin's in SE Michigan and check out the STLE they just setup.

http://marvin3m.com

Cool. Marvin's League night starts December 6th so it looks like I might get a chance to put some time on it.