I'm a huge Metallica fan but don't care much for a pin for them. I'd rather play something else with the juke pumping out Metallica or Megadeath. I don't believe it will do well.
Stern Metallica
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Golden Graham
Active Member
I sent Brock my money for the LE....I can't wait! I, like Elliot was heavily influenced by Metallica growing up. I cannot wait to get this machine in my basement!
I just have to decide what to sell (SWDE?) or cancel (PRED?) Too many decisions!!!
I just have to decide what to sell (SWDE?) or cancel (PRED?) Too many decisions!!!
DRANO
Super Member
I've heard JPOP was not too amused with them re-using his TOTAN magnetic disappearing ball trick. I like Borg, but he certainly is getting a reputation as a copycat designer.
Still, doesn't prevent me from playing the snot out of my Tron and X-Men
Still, doesn't prevent me from playing the snot out of my Tron and X-Men
Chris Bardon
Well-Known Member
I can see that, but honestly, is there much that hasn't been done before? I'm honestly surprised that it took this long for someone else to pull that one out again. As far as I'm concerned, once an idea is out there, it's just something else to add to the toolbox for everyone else. Everyone adds something new, while pulling the elements that make the most sense from everywhere else.
I can't tell-is there supposed to be something under that coffin in front of the hammer/magnet?
I'm assuming that the snake mouth on the LE opens/closes-can anyone else see the fangs getting broken off really easily?
that's what patents are for. If it's not under patent, or expired, then it is public domain, no matter what "the code" of designers is.
Seems like the pinball world has changed, there might have been a time (the 90s) when "the code" was followed, with themes, or toys, or whatever, but jpop is getting hit from all sides (other Zombie pin in development simultaneous to his, etc). I understand his frustration, but life's rough, wear a helmet.
I do think jpop customers are in for a treat though, because the level of craft and innovation he is bringing will be unmatched in today's market. but it will be a rough ride.
Seems like the pinball world has changed, there might have been a time (the 90s) when "the code" was followed, with themes, or toys, or whatever, but jpop is getting hit from all sides (other Zombie pin in development simultaneous to his, etc). I understand his frustration, but life's rough, wear a helmet
.I do think jpop customers are in for a treat though, because the level of craft and innovation he is bringing will be unmatched in today's market. but it will be a rough ride.
I was going to comment too as of late Stern has been paying homage to a lot of JPOP's ideas found on his past games and even Gomez borrow from his too with the spinning Tesseract cube on his Avengers. Perhaps Gomez is closer friend's to JPOP but probably asked out of respect if he would mind and maybe as a trade off he gave JPOP the a fully populated Avengers Pro whitewood to auction off for charity.
Agree with what frolic said about the patents as Steve Ritchie put one on his below playfield ball delivery system.
Patent #5,350,174 [BELOW THE PLAYFIELD BALL DELIVERY SYSTEM FOR A PINBALL GAME] filed October 28, 1993. Granted September 27, 1994 to Ritchie et al. Assignee is Williams Electronic Games, Inc.
I doubt any designer at Stern would even attempt to implement this as it would eat too much into their already small budget I am sure. It is however nice to see Stern is slowly adding back some standard features such as under playfield subways, metal ramps, wire forms, and other cooler interactive ball toys to the game to reflect the higher prices they are charging for the Premium and LE games. Their quality on the other hand is still questionable :FP:
My friend Speedy's Tesseract cube on his Avengers from last week :lol: Good thing he bought from a very good seller Brock (aka REVOLUTION). He always takes care of his customers so if you are looking for your first pinball machine he is the one to call. He provides the best pricing and he will even deliver if you are local in the GTA and help you setup your game too.
Agree with what frolic said about the patents as Steve Ritchie put one on his below playfield ball delivery system.
Patent #5,350,174 [BELOW THE PLAYFIELD BALL DELIVERY SYSTEM FOR A PINBALL GAME] filed October 28, 1993. Granted September 27, 1994 to Ritchie et al. Assignee is Williams Electronic Games, Inc.
I doubt any designer at Stern would even attempt to implement this as it would eat too much into their already small budget I am sure. It is however nice to see Stern is slowly adding back some standard features such as under playfield subways, metal ramps, wire forms, and other cooler interactive ball toys to the game to reflect the higher prices they are charging for the Premium and LE games. Their quality on the other hand is still questionable :FP:
My friend Speedy's Tesseract cube on his Avengers from last week :lol: Good thing he bought from a very good seller Brock (aka REVOLUTION). He always takes care of his customers so if you are looking for your first pinball machine he is the one to call. He provides the best pricing and he will even deliver if you are local in the GTA and help you setup your game too.
Vengeance
Well-Known Member
Not that it concerns my potential purchase (PRO), but I really hope that Stern cuts the crap with 555 bulbs in GI for the Premium/LEs.
Paying 7-8k for a game that has bulbs falling out all the time would suck.
Paying 7-8k for a game that has bulbs falling out all the time would suck.
Vengeance
Well-Known Member
I'm in wait and see, with there being a Premium there is no hurry to buy one until it's come out and I've played it.
Maybe there will be a Premium #3 version with a complete retheme to something other than Metallica.. One can only hope!
One can only hope!
Vengeance
Well-Known Member
bstock
Active Member
WAY too many Metallica threads on a certain forum. Glad there is only one here for now. I'm not a huge Metallica fan, but I do have to admit that the art work and playfield look wonderful. Bright colors, cartoony drawings. Love it.
I'm currently wading through the wads of talk on pinside.
You miss a lot when you are actually PLAYING pinball
As far as I can tell, Stern totally dropped the ball on this one.
The smart thing to do would be sell the MOP LE's to North America and create a second LE for overseas (Ride The Lightning, Black, etc).
Everyone wins, including stern.
This whole second premium thing is just plain stupid.
Other than that, I applaud Stern for making everyone lose their shit over a pinball machine.
The market is ripe and they are taking full advantage, which means they will continue to survive and hopefully improve quality.
I still have dozens of pages to go, but so far the most thoughtful and poignant post I've read is the following:
fusion301
Somers Point, NJ
The problem is people thinking about this as an investment. Why do you care how many are made? if its rare? Why, because you think it will hold some sort of value that you can then resell for more then you paid down the road (not because you give a shit about pinball and increasing its awareness like it was in the 80's and 90's, not because you want the game for its gameplay over its side art and crappy powder coating)
Pinball is not an investment, The same people driving up the prices will be selling their A and B titles down the road to fund their New Kids on the Block LEs, let me know I have cash in my pocket I'll be waiting.
Some of you guys need to get over it - who gives a shit if they make 3000 LEs - this isn't some sort of elite status you achieve by having a rare game and being first inline, if you want a rare game I will sell you my Airborne Avenger - only 350 made - maybe I should sell it for 5k even though I got it for $150. If the game sucks it doesnt matter how rare it is.
If stern was smart they would release more LEs release a Ride the Lightening LE - do away with the entire premium model and just have the Pros - no shortage, all you guys would stop wanking, distributers would make money and Stern would make money - this entire LE thing is getting out of control - sell them in 20 years with your cabbage patch kid collection and your worthless beanie babies....
YOur f*cking up pinball for the people that actually play and care about pinball, not collect games to put on display and be wiped down with a diaper....just my opinion... I still dont get the whole rare thing - so because you want a rare game you dont want other people to have the opportunity to own one? Is that selfish or greedy or both?
Tomorrow you will see this will change..
You miss a lot when you are actually PLAYING pinball
As far as I can tell, Stern totally dropped the ball on this one.
The smart thing to do would be sell the MOP LE's to North America and create a second LE for overseas (Ride The Lightning, Black, etc).
Everyone wins, including stern.
This whole second premium thing is just plain stupid.
Other than that, I applaud Stern for making everyone lose their shit over a pinball machine.
The market is ripe and they are taking full advantage, which means they will continue to survive and hopefully improve quality.
I still have dozens of pages to go, but so far the most thoughtful and poignant post I've read is the following:
fusion301
Somers Point, NJ
The problem is people thinking about this as an investment. Why do you care how many are made? if its rare? Why, because you think it will hold some sort of value that you can then resell for more then you paid down the road (not because you give a shit about pinball and increasing its awareness like it was in the 80's and 90's, not because you want the game for its gameplay over its side art and crappy powder coating)
Pinball is not an investment, The same people driving up the prices will be selling their A and B titles down the road to fund their New Kids on the Block LEs, let me know I have cash in my pocket I'll be waiting.
Some of you guys need to get over it - who gives a shit if they make 3000 LEs - this isn't some sort of elite status you achieve by having a rare game and being first inline, if you want a rare game I will sell you my Airborne Avenger - only 350 made - maybe I should sell it for 5k even though I got it for $150. If the game sucks it doesnt matter how rare it is.
If stern was smart they would release more LEs release a Ride the Lightening LE - do away with the entire premium model and just have the Pros - no shortage, all you guys would stop wanking, distributers would make money and Stern would make money - this entire LE thing is getting out of control - sell them in 20 years with your cabbage patch kid collection and your worthless beanie babies....
YOur f*cking up pinball for the people that actually play and care about pinball, not collect games to put on display and be wiped down with a diaper....just my opinion... I still dont get the whole rare thing - so because you want a rare game you dont want other people to have the opportunity to own one? Is that selfish or greedy or both?
Tomorrow you will see this will change..
I can't stand Metallica.. but the pin does look very nice. It's good to see Stern supporting an artist (though I'm sure this was Metallica's decision).. and a CANADIAN artist ta boot!
this will be the first pin in a very long time that has hand drawn art designed specifically for the game.. Xmen doesn't count, it's just a bunch of comic book pages photoshopped together.
this will be the first pin in a very long time that has hand drawn art designed specifically for the game.. Xmen doesn't count, it's just a bunch of comic book pages photoshopped together.
Thanks for the quote, MP. Perfectly sums up my feelings. This LE stuff has gotten out of hand. People are buying on pure speculation. Pinballs are not investments. Enjoy and have fun.
Cheers,
Duane
Cheers,
Duane
Sorry guys but I gotta disagree on the Pro, Premium and LE thing. While it sucks that many of us (myself included) can not afford each and every new LE or premium; I think this marketing model has saved pinball. it is absolutely genius from a corporate perspective. Sterns resale numbers are continually going higher and higher. 500 Metallica LEs sold out in less than an hour! Wow! Good for them. I doubt Stern makes much profit when a Pro pin sells for under US$5K, however when a premium can sell for $2K more - well that is where the profit lies. We all know that there isn't $2k more worth of goodies but the folks with money to burn are helping to line Sterns pockets. Stern just can"t make a pin with all the bells and whistles that we want and sell it for $5k (unless they look to outsourcing to China - and then we will really have some discussion on quality).
Whoever, Sterns new investors were/are they knew how to market (even if they knew nothing about Pinball). I wish I could afford all those fancy new pins but the fact that Stern can make and sell those Premiums and LEs means they are still making pins and that is good for all of us. This is no longer a poor mans hobby unfortunately. However, you can't blame Stern alone for the price increases. That blame falls on the collectors and hobbyists. Over the last 10 years we have repaired and brought back to life everything we could get our hands on to the point that it is almost impossible to find a banged up routed machine. Everything that comes up for sale has been repaired, buffed, polished and many are better than new. This has increased the price as we are paying for condition and as a result the hobbyists are recouping some of their investment costs (parts & labour).
As you can see we also have the shrewed individuals that buy up the LEs as soon as they can only to flip them within a few months of purchase for a tidy profit. Provided it is a hit (I doubt many Avatar's or Transformer LEs made much for their investment owners). However, I am willing to bet at least half of the collector community is now guilty of finding and buying a "deal" pin and then quickly flipping it for a profit. Certainly, few do this to make any real money; it is just a way to support the hobby (I am sure we can all understand that even though it drives us crazy as it inflates prices. Gee guys - welcome to the world of capitalism).
As for rarity - Pinball Collectors aren't any different that Stamp, Coin, Car, Spoon, Card or whatever collectors. Rarity often means $$$$. Can you believe someone just paid over $250k for a penny with an extra dot? To me I would rather pay $13k for the MM if I had to chose.
Come on guys - stop begrudging Stern for saving pinball. Go work harder, stop feeding your children and buy more pins. :lol:
As a final thought for today: As soon as Gary Stern comes to terms with the fact he is not a "fabrication" company but is a software company things will really fly. He can have the best pinball platform and mechanical designs in the worlds but if he doesn't have great software - he doesn't have sh&^!
Cheers!
Whoever, Sterns new investors were/are they knew how to market (even if they knew nothing about Pinball). I wish I could afford all those fancy new pins but the fact that Stern can make and sell those Premiums and LEs means they are still making pins and that is good for all of us. This is no longer a poor mans hobby unfortunately. However, you can't blame Stern alone for the price increases. That blame falls on the collectors and hobbyists. Over the last 10 years we have repaired and brought back to life everything we could get our hands on to the point that it is almost impossible to find a banged up routed machine. Everything that comes up for sale has been repaired, buffed, polished and many are better than new. This has increased the price as we are paying for condition and as a result the hobbyists are recouping some of their investment costs (parts & labour).
As you can see we also have the shrewed individuals that buy up the LEs as soon as they can only to flip them within a few months of purchase for a tidy profit. Provided it is a hit (I doubt many Avatar's or Transformer LEs made much for their investment owners). However, I am willing to bet at least half of the collector community is now guilty of finding and buying a "deal" pin and then quickly flipping it for a profit. Certainly, few do this to make any real money; it is just a way to support the hobby (I am sure we can all understand that even though it drives us crazy as it inflates prices. Gee guys - welcome to the world of capitalism).
As for rarity - Pinball Collectors aren't any different that Stamp, Coin, Car, Spoon, Card or whatever collectors. Rarity often means $$$$. Can you believe someone just paid over $250k for a penny with an extra dot? To me I would rather pay $13k for the MM if I had to chose.
Come on guys - stop begrudging Stern for saving pinball. Go work harder, stop feeding your children and buy more pins. :lol:
As a final thought for today: As soon as Gary Stern comes to terms with the fact he is not a "fabrication" company but is a software company things will really fly. He can have the best pinball platform and mechanical designs in the worlds but if he doesn't have great software - he doesn't have sh&^!
Cheers!