The Ever-Widening Circle - One Pin To Rule Them

[DRANO]

Speaking from the outside, your collective isn't particularly welcoming. Now I'm sure I'm not helping my situation any saying it here, but it's true. I'm friends with most of the older Toronto-area collectors but for whatever reason the newer crew is pretty frosty and insular (with a few notable exceptions). I've made an effort to introduce myself on a few occasions and been actively brushed off.

That's actually pretty normal for a close group to be like that, but you should be aware of that when you make statements like the above.

My comment was really pertaining more to collectors who lurk online (for any number of reasons) and don't take the time to introduce themselves or their experiences. Those that do generally get a pretty warm reception from what I've seen. I've had to make that leap before. It's intimidating jumping into a forum... but it's made all the difference for me.

My "collective" is made up of collectors from all age groups. Some veterans and some new. Generalizing that all new collectors are cold and unwelcoming is like saying all old collectors are honest and fair

Anyway, if someone treated you poorly when you reached out to them that's pretty shitty. Most guys I know are usually eager to help out a fellow collector or even invite perfect strangers over to try out their pins.

As for spiroagnew's comment. I totally remember his account of that exchange last year. He was left with a pretty poor opinion from that one simple encounter.

Not pointing fingers or making excuses... but we all have off days. Might be better to just talk it out with whoever gave you the cold shoulder. I usually like to give someone the benefit of the doubt... usually

 

[meegis]

Speaking from the outside, your collective isn't particularly welcoming. Now I'm sure I'm not helping my situation any saying it here, but it's true. I'm friends with most of the older Toronto-area collectors but for whatever reason the newer crew is pretty frosty and insular (with a few notable exceptions). I've made an effort to introduce myself on a few occasions and been actively brushed off.

That's actually pretty normal for a close group to be like that, but you should be aware of that when you make statements like the above.

The one time I met you I explained where my comments came from in another thread you weren't happy with, and even after the conversation and a handshake, you still called me an asshole.

I don't get your issue with me specifically, but from the night we met, you didn't particularly care for anyone in this hobby. You made that abundantly clear in your defensive chatter.



Just my $0.02

 

[luch]

 

[Rascal]

My "collective" is made up of collectors from all age groups. Some veterans and some new. Generalizing that all new collectors are cold and unwelcoming is like saying all old collectors are honest and fair

Is that something like the "Borg collective" (STTNG)? That would explain the # number designation. It is all making sense now.

 

[fantasygoat]

Please. I think we both know who was "frosty" when I attempted to strike up a conversation with you at the hotel breakfast area in Ann Arbor last year. I was brushed off like Gary Stern's dandruff.

I explained that situation and apologized. I was sitting there eating breakfast, and a *complete stranger* comes up and says hello. I had just woken up and I wasn't in a place where you'd expect to be social. It's like someone coming up to you in a restaurant and striking up a conversation.

If you'd come over at the VFW and said hello, it would have been different. Anyway, I'm sorry about that.

 

[fantasygoat]

The one time I met you I explained where my comments came from in another thread you weren't happy with, and even after the conversation and a handshake, you still called me an asshole.

Yes, because you accused me of "having a reputation" and that I should be avoided because of "things I'd done to collectors" in the past, that turned out to be a discussion thread on RGP from 15 years ago that was actually resolved to everyone's satisfaction back then. So you were talking shit about me based on decades old info that wasn't even a real thing, and we'd never met. That's why I called you an asshole.

 

[fantasygoat]

Generalizing that all new collectors are cold and unwelcoming is like saying all old collectors are honest and fair

I get that there's a smiley on there but there's also a sentiment that implies I'm not honest or fair. Have we met? Done a deal? I don't think so, but somehow you've got this opinion. If it were just me that would be one thing, but it's not - I know of a handful of others locally who aren't welcome in the group, and others who prefer to stay outside because of the attitudes expressed by some of the members.

Don't like me (even though we've never met), fine. But that's not what I'm talking about.

 

[DRANO]

Is that something like the "Borg collective" (STTNG)? That would explain the # number designation. It is all making sense now.

Resistance is futile...

I just love how some people talk about the "group" the "circle" or the "collective" like it's some private boys club.

Sure, there are maybe a half dozen regulars here that I speak with off line on a daily basis and who I may see fairly regularly. But the truth is that I (and most of them too) have plenty of personal relationships with many more collectors. Our friends and contacts in the community span most of southern Ontario, Quebec, Western Canada and even some friends south of the border. They are made up of veterans and noobs alike. These are people we socialize with on a regular basis. Generally speaking, we're usually pretty happy to hear from or meet some "new blood". The suggestion that some here are cold and unwelcoming just seems starnge to me... maybe because I just don't see it.

Usually pinheads will happily assimilate almost anyone

 

[DRANO]

I get that there's a smiley on there but there's also a sentiment that implies I'm not honest or fair. Have we met? Done a deal? I don't think so, but somehow you've got this opinion. If it were just me that would be one thing, but it's not - I know of a handful of others locally who aren't welcome in the group, and others who prefer to stay outside because of the attitudes expressed by some of the members.

Don't like me (even though we've never met), fine. But that's not what I'm talking about.

Nope. Not at all. Don't know you and, for anyone reading, have never been involved in any dealings with you.

Just trying to make a point that being a veteran doesn't instantly make someone a "good guy"... the same way that being part of the new generation of pinball collectors doesn't make one cold and unwelcoming.

I don't like to make such generalizations.

 

[Rascal]

Hi Mr.Goat, it's all cool. I am new here but must say pinheads here have been very friendly and helpful.

 

[brewmanager]

Like anything else, I feel strongly that you get out what you put in.

I know compared to some I'm a noob, but at 5 years in now I certainly don't feel that way.

Some people have been great to me. Some less so. I try to be neutral wherever I can and will happily welcome anyone into the activities I assist to run.

Do I have good friends in the hobby that I've developed over the years? Absolutely. Have some people frosted me? Absolutely.

I try to stay out of disputes, but I'd just like to reiterate my initial statement. Contribute positively, get treated positively.

 

[superjackpot]

Thank you for that initial exposure to both Pinball # 1 (Volley) and Pinball # 2 (Joker Poker).

This was that night back in Dec 2012. Joker Poker and Volley (on my 'SS/EM wall') made a lasting impression on you. Even some diehard DMD collectors were taking a long look.

Speaking from the outside, your collective isn't particularly welcoming.

I've been in touch with these guys ever since, so I guess that makes me part of the collective? Yet I'd consider myself pretty welcoming. I play pinball, am not an avid poster but will help a fellow pinhead.

Born and raised in Toronto I did not know of Topl back in the 90s (or any pinball community for that matter). I did not know you could buy a pinball machine for home use. (IF ONLY I DID!! ) I did not know Eugene a Topl founder but played him at Pinburgh this year. I didn't meet some of the other legacy Topl members until I joined about 7 years ago. I didn't know pinball was on RGP. Yet I can fathom a guess that some of you who knew each other back then still keep in touch and have your own circle. This is just how things work.

I've observed some lament for our hobby by the old guard, sour with the pricey direction it has taken. Now here's this young crowd with their money, garish LEDs and ridiculous pinball mods swooping in... "Who do they think they are?!" Changing of the guard perhaps? This is just how things work.

Recently I've read a lot banter on these local forums about circles. I just shake my head. Makes friends, be a good friend, keep friends. I don't think it's more complicated than that.

 

[mwong168]

Your picture didn't work Barry but I think you were probably looking for this one of me hogging Volley on Dec 14, 2012 when you had a few us over at your place.



Man how time flies when you are having fun with friends

 

[meegis]

Yes, because you accused me of "having a reputation" and that I should be avoided because of "things I'd done to collectors" in the past, that turned out to be a discussion thread on RGP from 15 years ago that was actually resolved to everyone's satisfaction back then. So you were talking shit about me based on decades old info that wasn't even a real thing, and we'd never met. That's why I called you an asshole.

As explained that night, I didnt "accuse" you of anything. I was explaining where people got their opinion of you if they hadnt met you in person. The only "shit talking" was my opinion of how you complained about crossing the border for reasons you explained poorly, and falsely.

Whatever, you dont like me. Doesn't change my stance on this hobby. Im with most everyone else here that says "you get what you give". With such a small niche community, things are pretty transparent.

Just a question though....


After meeting you, shaking your hand, and explaining these things to you, you still told me you think Im an asshole. How do you expect to get any good feedback from someone, when you blatantly and unabashedly call them names? You think if anyone ever asks me about you Im going to say you were pleasant? While you may have been around 20 years ago, and had a shit rep back then (which you say was resolved), you hardly pop up now, and still here you are complaining about this "new school" of hobbyists. It doesnt make sense, and quite frankly, it seems like a dull approach.

 

[superjackpot]

Your picture didn't work Barry but I think you were probably looking for this one of me hogging Volley on Dec 14, 2012 when you had a few us over at your place.

View attachment 5957

Man how time flies when you are having fun with friends

That was it !

 

[brewmanager]

Volley is the new Volley. Glad one is in play at Bluffs - love that game!

 

[fantasygoat]

After meeting you, shaking your hand, and explaining these things to you, you still told me you think Im an asshole. How do you expect to get any good feedback from someone, when you blatantly and unabashedly call them names?

Would you prefer I lie and pretend to like you to your face? Personally I think it's much worse to be a false person. Of course, obviously you're not going to say nice things about me going forward and I wouldn't expect you to, but I'm not the one who started this crap. I walked into the room and got shit on based on RGP posts from 20 years ago, second hand.

The only "shit talking" was my opinion of how you complained about crossing the border for reasons you explained poorly, and falsely.

I posted a comment, meant to be light-hearted, about how normal people don't understand this hobby and gave an example of me crossing the border to bring games to a show, and then you and a few of the others here jumped on the bandwagon of picking apart the story and called me names like "traitor" for bringing games to the US to sell, among other things. Then you brought up shit from decades ago to slander my character. *Then* on top of that you refused to offer evidence of those things, hand-waving it away as though slagging me off didn't require some actual reasons. You've given me plenty of reasons to not like you.

Why I don't "pop up" much should be fairly obvious - why would I want to spend time with people that don't like me? Also, I have a toddler and he takes up most of my time so I can't come out to the various ToPL or Bluffs league nights. A better questions is why do I keep coming back here? I like to be current on what's happening in the hobby and this site, MAACA and so on do have some small amount of info in that regard.

I mostly stay out of the threads but Drano's comment really set me off - the idea that he felt *sad* for people on the outside just really triggered the memory of people here telling me they'd actively sabotage my efforts to find games or charge me extra for parts or games to "punish" me for not conforming to your ideals of how collectors should "behave." It wasn't you specifically or Drano who said those things, but it was some of your group, so the idea that you're all a bunch of super inclusive, lovey-dovey great guys is bullshit. There's some rotten apples in that barrel.

If anyone wants to convince me otherwise, or just call me names to my face, I'm usually at Nick's, sometimes at Kim's, and I'll be at the VFW in May.

 

[meegis]

Would you prefer I lie and pretend to like you to your face? Personally I think it's much worse to be a false person. Of course, obviously you're not going to say nice things about me going forward and I wouldn't expect you to, but I'm not the one who started this crap. I walked into the room and got shit on based on RGP posts from 20 years ago, second hand.



I posted a comment, meant to be light-hearted, about how normal people don't understand this hobby and gave an example of me crossing the border to bring games to a show, and then you and a few of the others here jumped on the bandwagon of picking apart the story and called me names like "traitor" for bringing games to the US to sell, among other things. Then you brought up shit from decades ago to slander my character. *Then* on top of that you refused to offer evidence of those things, hand-waving it away as though slagging me off didn't require some actual reasons. You've given me plenty of reasons to not like you.

Why I don't "pop up" much should be fairly obvious - why would I want to spend time with people that don't like me? Also, I have a toddler and he takes up most of my time so I can't come out to the various ToPL or Bluffs league nights. A better questions is why do I keep coming back here? I like to be current on what's happening in the hobby and this site, MAACA and so on do have some small amount of info in that regard.

I mostly stay out of the threads but Drano's comment really set me off - the idea that he felt *sad* for people on the outside just really triggered the memory of people here telling me they'd actively sabotage my efforts to find games or charge me extra for parts or games to "punish" me for not conforming to your ideals of how collectors should "behave." It wasn't you specifically or Drano who said those things, but it was some of your group, so the idea that you're all a bunch of super inclusive, lovey-dovey great guys is bullshit. There's some rotten apples in that barrel.

If anyone wants to convince me otherwise, or just call me names to my face, I'm usually at Nick's, sometimes at Kim's, and I'll be at the VFW in May.

I didnt want to respond, but to clear a couple things.

Im glad you arent false, you are a dick with complex. Plain and simple.

I never called you a traitor, but what I did point out, was you lying about your games and expecting the moon on prices. You claim to be helping the hobby by donating games to a show, but your first and clear purpose was to sell to Americans for their highly valued green backs. Which, as a seller, is your perogative, but dont try to hide that fact by playing the good guy game bringer.


Anyway, Im done with your shit, and I dont care anymore. You have some pent up aggression towards most in this hobby, your problem.

Oh, and if we see you at Nicks, or Kims, you'll have lots of time to talk, as you refuse to play pinball while you attend league nights.

 

[fantasygoat]

what I did point out, was you lying about your games and expecting the moon on prices.

I've never lied about the condition of my games and I've always asked fair market value based on current pricing. Like I've said before, I've never not sold a game, they always sell.

You claim to be helping the hobby by donating games to a show, but your first and clear purpose was to sell to Americans for their highly valued green backs.

Even if the games were for sale, they were still in the free play area and got played a ton all weekend - I have the replacement parts bill to prove it. How many games have you brought to shows? How many games did you lend to the CPC?

Nice to see the attitude I was talking about front and centre. Thanks for providing an example.

Oh, and if we see you at Nicks, or Kims, you'll have lots of time to talk, as you refuse to play pinball while you attend league nights.

What does that even mean? I play plenty of games when I'm there, I just don't participate in the league portion because I can't come out every night so there's no point. I'm there to see my friends, and I'd rather talk about fixing or restoring games with the other collectors, I'm not interested in tournaments or competition.

So, how is that a problem? Somehow I'm an asshole because I don't play in ToPL. Another example of the attitude.

 

[meegis]

Keep playing the victim. Twist it however you want so you feel better about yourself.

Another thread shit in by fantasygoat.

I'm out