what are the correct flipper coils for high speed

[VA3AVP]

Hi guys in the high speed I just got I am slowing starting to go through the easy stuff and trying to understand what I have starting with some basics.

first I would like to ask your help on front flipper coils it appears that I have a FL-15411 on the left flipper and a FL-11722 on the right flipper is this an error? I read the 11722 is for close target shots and the right side seems weeker.

I have two brand new Williams FL1- 11630 and have read there the most common can I just replace both flipper coils with the FL1-11630?
pics of what is there now I have full assemblies from my whirlwind I don't need so I was thinking of pulling the new 11630 coils and installing them in the high speed there listed as common should this be ok?

 

[Slam_Tilt]

The manual is your friend.

http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/1176/Williams_1986_High_Speed_Instruction_Manual.pdf

All three flipper coils are fl-23-600

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=155&parent=56

 

[VA3AVP]

The manual is your friend.

http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/1176/Williams_1986_High_Speed_Instruction_Manual.pdf

All three flipper coils are fl-23-600

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=155&parent=56

Ok thank you I have to get better at reading that stuff

 

[Menace]

Hold the phone here people!

If this High Speed is running FL-15411 and FL-11722 the flippers in this game have been converted to using parallel wound coils!!! Simply replacing them with the stock FL-23-600-30/2600 without changing all the wiring back to handle a series wound coil will blow fuses at the very least.

I would suggest the owner stick with using the parallel wound coils going forward, and if you want the stock feel you need to run FL-11630 coils. These are the parallel versionf of the FL-23/600-30/2600.

Just make sure you re-attach the wires to the coil based on the diode orientation and NOT based on the lug locations! If the diodes on the new coil are exactly the same as the old coil then you're ok to swap lug for lug.

D

 

[Slam_Tilt]

Nice catch Menace and I learned something new. Is there a reason someone would convert to parallel wound coils?

 

[Menace]

Parallel coils are bit snappier than their series wound brethren. Reason being a parallel coil is two separate coils in one and are independant of each other. Once a parallel coil is flipped, the hold winding takes over and the power winding is completely removed from the circuit.

A series wound coil is just that, two coils in series and the high power portion of the coil is always energized regardless of the "hold" portion of the coil. (there really isn't a hold portion but a section that increases the resistance of the coil to decrease the current through it)

There is a reason most of the later generation of games from WMS used the parallel coil.

D

 

[spiroagnew]

Further reading on the difference and how to upgrade from series to parallel:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/t...gradingrebuilding-flippers/page/2#post-453690

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

 

[VA3AVP]

Hold the phone here people!

If this High Speed is running FL-15411 and FL-11722 the flippers in this game have been converted to using parallel wound coils!!! Simply replacing them with the stock FL-23-600-30/2600 without changing all the wiring back to handle a series wound coil will blow fuses at the very least.

I would suggest the owner stick with using the parallel wound coils going forward, and if you want the stock feel you need to run FL-11630 coils. These are the parallel versionf of the FL-23/600-30/2600.

Just make sure you re-attach the wires to the coil based on the diode orientation and NOT based on the lug locations! If the diodes on the new coil are exactly the same as the old coil then you're ok to swap lug for lug.

D

Thanks Menace I already ordered the other ones but will see if I can catch Marco before they ship. Can you explain why there would be a different coil number right and left? are you saying that two FL-11630 coils will be fine right and left? The third flipper top right single flipper is a 23-600 - I have a flipper rebuild kit coming for all three flippers will the parts be compatible with the change your explaining to me? Thank You

 

[eh97ac]

Your linkage looks greasy?

 

[VA3AVP]

Your linkage looks greasy?

didn't do it 73 year old gentlemen told me everything was perfect and game worked perfect!! ya rite! My 2100 dollar project he would not come down anymore but that's still Canadian and when I look at other machines in the States and consider shipping , travel, duty and exchange for my three hour drive I think I did ok. Always wanted this pin so happy was worth the drive playfield is in decent shape should be ok with a little work.
I have new flipper rebuild kits coming so I am sure most of the greasy parts will be gone - but I did not put the grease there

 

[Menace]

Thanks Menace I already ordered the other ones but will see if I can catch Marco before they ship. Can you explain why there would be a different coil number right and left? are you saying that two FL-11630 coils will be fine right and left? The third flipper top right single flipper is a 23-600 - I have a flipper rebuild kit coming for all three flippers will the parts be compatible with the change your explaining to me? Thank You

Ok, let's start from the beginning.

Based on the manual, all three flippers should be the same part#'s / strength coils. Where the two lower ones have already been swapped over to a parallel coil you should keep them that way. Why your game has different strength coils installed between the left and right is anyones guess, probably a previous owner/tech that didn't have the correct coils on hand at the time and really didn't give a crap as long as the flippers flipped. You will find more often than not this is the case with these older games...

Now, if your upper flipper still has the original FL-23/600-30/2600 coil installed to keep things easy you can keep that one the same if you'd like. Alternatively you could replace that coil with the same FL-11630 that you are getting for the lower flippers and convert that one to a parallel setup as well. Your decision to do this will depend on your comfort level as it will require you to change some of the wiring on the coil around and adding a capacitor across the EOS switch. If you can follow instructions and are handy with a soldering iron it's not overly difficult. See Spiro's post above on how to convert series to parallel if you want to go that route.

The one other thing to note is with the rebuild kits you purchased. Where you have the two lower coils converted to parallel, the kits may not come with the large yellow snubbing capacitors as they were not required on series wound coils. They are not technically required for parallel coils to work either, but without them your EOS switch lifespan will be shorter due to sparking. Just something to keep in mind, and if your kits do not come with them I would recommend adding them to your order. http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/XO-995

So to re-cap, all 3 flippers in the game use the same strength coil per the manual. The FL-11630 parallel coil is the same strength as the FL-23/600-30/2600 series coil, so if you have the FL-11630 in the lowers and the FL-23/600-30/2600 in the upper the strength will all be relatively equal across all flippers.

Hope this clears it all up.


D

 

[BMHouze]

There is an option (bonus?) that can overpower the coils.
I was told to never do this, but it is an option.
I miss HS, miss them all but I need some variety now and then and switch up the lineup.

 

[Menace]

There is an option (bonus?) that can overpower the coils.
I was told to never do this, but it is an option.
I miss HS, miss them all but I need some variety now and then and switch up the lineup.

Care to explain this? I have never heard of this before, and based on how the coils are wired I fail to see how this is even physically possible on High Speed.

D

 

[BMHouze]

I was told this by ToPEC when I got my HS.
I was told it was one of the options. Just like custom message. Dallas warned me not to do this.
Just throwing it out there.
I don't have HS anymore, everything for it went with it including the manual.

I looked through the pdf
She must have been confused with the coil bonus that fires the knocker coil.

 

[VA3AVP]

Ok, let's start from the beginning.

Based on the manual, all three flippers should be the same part#'s / strength coils. Where the two lower ones have already been swapped over to a parallel coil you should keep them that way. Why your game has different strength coils installed between the left and right is anyones guess, probably a previous owner/tech that didn't have the correct coils on hand at the time and really didn't give a crap as long as the flippers flipped. You will find more often than not this is the case with these older games...

Now, if your upper flipper still has the original FL-23/600-30/2600 coil installed to keep things easy you can keep that one the same if you'd like. Alternatively you could replace that coil with the same FL-11630 that you are getting for the lower flippers and convert that one to a parallel setup as well. Your decision to do this will depend on your comfort level as it will require you to change some of the wiring on the coil around and adding a capacitor across the EOS switch. If you can follow instructions and are handy with a soldering iron it's not overly difficult. See Spiro's post above on how to convert series to parallel if you want to go that route.

The one other thing to note is with the rebuild kits you purchased. Where you have the two lower coils converted to parallel, the kits may not come with the large yellow snubbing capacitors as they were not required on series wound coils. They are not technically required for parallel coils to work either, but without them your EOS switch lifespan will be shorter due to sparking. Just something to keep in mind, and if your kits do not come with them I would recommend adding them to your order. http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/XO-995

So to re-cap, all 3 flippers in the game use the same strength coil per the manual. The FL-11630 parallel coil is the same strength as the FL-23/600-30/2600 series coil, so if you have the FL-11630 in the lowers and the FL-23/600-30/2600 in the upper the strength will all be relatively equal across all flippers.

Hope this clears it all up.


D

Ok thanks Menance this is great information. Guess what! I realized I had full flipper assemblies for my Whirlwind I bought after I had already repaired it with some pinscore coils. I checked my parts section in the garage and low and behold they have Williams FL1-11630 COILS so I don't have to order them . I was going to ask you about those yellow capacitors I have them but noted they did not put them on the coils in high speed however as you say I noticed lots of contact spark and some of the contact points look toasted pretty good so I will use them. So these are full assemblies all I need in the rebuild kits to come is the switch assembly's as I think my switch wont work it looks different for Whirlwind then the switches in high speed. I will attach pictures of what I have I think I am in good shape here parts wise. I was not able to cancel my coil order from Marco had already shipped so I will leave the third flipper coil stock for now and just replace it new.

 

[VA3AVP]

Hey Menance just doing a test run on the game now and smelt smoke shut it off rite away! it was one of the pop bumper coils was stuck in the down position the coil was very hot. Its my fault I repaired the one bumper as someone had the wrong parts on it and I believe my contact switch was too close engaging the coil in the down position. If that coil got so hot and blew a little smoke is it most likely garbage now or if It cools and I fix my switch so this does not happen again is there a chance the coil will be ok?

Thanks

 

[VA3AVP]

Menance on the snubber capacitor I am a little confused the highspeed has a dual switch it is my understand one switch is for the flipper and the secondary is EOS? or for the engine rev sound so would you need two of those yellow capacitors one on each switch? not sure how I would install it.
I have installed one new 11630 full assembly without the yellow capacitor and it seems to be working well so I think I will be ok but if I wanted to add them later do I need one for each switch?

sorry if that's a dumb question but really not sure

 

[Menace]

Hey Menance just doing a test run on the game now and smelt smoke shut it off rite away! it was one of the pop bumper coils was stuck in the down position the coil was very hot. Its my fault I repaired the one bumper as someone had the wrong parts on it and I believe my contact switch was too close engaging the coil in the down position. If that coil got so hot and blew a little smoke is it most likely garbage now or if It cools and I fix my switch so this does not happen again is there a chance the coil will be ok?

Thanks

Yeah, if the switch was not gapped correctly that coil will lock on and the smoke (if it was from the coil and not the backbox) could mean it's toast if not caught in time. If you can still manually actuate that coil by hand and it's niec a free then it *could* be ok, but only way to know for sure is test it with a DMM. If the resistance of that coil measures anything close to 2 ohms or less it's shorted and needs to be replaced. And if that is the case it likely took out the TIP102 transistor on the MPU that drives it...

D

 

[Menace]

Menance on the snubber capacitor I am a little confused the highspeed has a dual switch it is my understand one switch is for the flipper and the secondary is EOS? or for the engine rev sound so would you need two of those yellow capacitors one on each switch? not sure how I would install it.
I have installed one new 11630 full assembly without the yellow capacitor and it seems to be working well so I think I will be ok but if I wanted to add them later do I need one for each switch?

sorry if that's a dumb question but really not sure

You only need to install that yellow cap across the two lugs of the EOS on the flipper mechanism. Zip tie the yellow cap to the post the EOS is screwed down to, and then solder each lead from the cap to each of the EOS lugs. This is to help arrest the sparking of the EOS switch and keep the pitting of the contacts to a minimum and extend the life of the EOS switch contacts

Hope that helps.

D

 

[VA3AVP]

Yeah, if the switch was not gapped correctly that coil will lock on and the smoke (if it was from the coil and not the backbox) could mean it's toast if not caught in time. If you can still manually actuate that coil by hand and it's niec a free then it *could* be ok, but only way to know for sure is test it with a DMM. If the resistance of that coil measures anything close to 2 ohms or less it's shorted and needs to be replaced. And if that is the case it likely took out the TIP102 transistor on the MPU that drives it...

D

It's ok I got lucky a bunch of new boards and a new ribbon set came in yesterday the new ribbon set fixed my loud electronic pulsing noise coming through the speakers, installed new sound board, new power supply, and new pin score LED display system game not perfect yet but I had it playing and it was fun!