White Water Owners - Help Please

[Fifty]

Would one of the White Water owners out there please tell me if they have tapered flipper link assemblies on their pin?

I'm shopping the flippers on mine and they've been fixed so many times with spare parts over the years that I can no longer tell what is original. That means I'm having to rely on the manual.

Page 2-20 of the manual says that it should be Flipper Crank Link Assembly p/n: B-13882-L which looks like this on Marco;
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-15848-L

But then two lines down on the same page it says the Flipper Link assembly is p/n: A-10656 which looks like this on Marco;
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-10656

The part breakdown image on page 2-21 shows a tapered Flipper Link.

Right now I'm using the non-tapered and the plunger is not impacting the flipper stop.

Which is it???

 

[Chris Bardon]

When I rebuilt the flippers on my Whitewater, I used these kits (http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=983) if that helps. Seems to work fine. The only other weirdness on there that I can remember is that the upper flipper uses the older style return spring, while the bottom ones are the newer style.

 

[Fifty]

The upper flipper uses the coil spring due to the limited amount of space on the upper PF. I've read about a few people modifying the game to the newer style spring without any difficulties.

This game is all over the map confusion wise as far as flippers go. The upper coil is red. left is orange, and right is blue. Even the manual messes up the part numbers for it's own crank assemblies.

I'm pretty sure the kits you listed will work, but are not the correct ones. The flipper stop shown in the kit is the later style for Bally/Williams. I can't be 100% sure though as PBL doesn't show a part breakdown. The later style flipper stop works with the cranks shown.

I've gotten one PM about the linkages saying they should be tapered. I would still like confirmation from others though.

Thanks!

 

[Menace]

If you're not installing a complete flipper rebuild kit, I can see you having this issue. I'm sure if you buy a kit, regardless of link style you can rest assured the stops will be the correct type that make contact with the plunger because the flipper coil size has never changed.

D

 

[Fifty]

Good point. I'm sure that is true.

To save money, and reduce waste, I opted to only replace the parts that were worn or incorrect. I also strive to to use the correct original parts.

This is why I'm trying to find out if the link is supposed to be tapered or not.

 

[Menace]

The tapered links were usually only found in games with the conical return spring that sat over the plunger/link, as the taper helped keep the spring centered. I also think these links were abandoned in favor of the non-tapered version as the taper section was a weak link and prone to cracking...

D

 

[mwong168]

Here is a complete flipper rebuild kit from The Pinball Resource and what yours are suppose to look like

http://www.pbresource.com/rebuildkit.html#KT-WFLIP06

The Pinball Resource also offers upper flipper only rebuild kits too

http://www.pbresource.com/rebuildk/kt-wflip-06r.jpg

 

[Fifty]

I'm on board with you for the first kit (KT-WFLIP06), but I know for a fact that the upper flipper uses a conical spring. This means the second kit you posted (KT-WFLIP-06R) is not correct.

Actually, I'm still confused. When you look at the part breakdown for those kits Steve lists the flipper stop as A-12390 which is not correct according to the manual that shows the part number as A-12111.

 

[DRANO]

Oh man... I was hoping to help here but I'm now as confused as you. I'm certain I used Steve's rebuild kits for mine.

Bear in mind that many times a new part # is used as a substitute for another older number. Not sure if that's what's happening in here, but just be aware of that.
Then, add on top of that the fact that many manuals have incorrect info and you're really flying blind

 

[Fifty]

It seems there is no definitive answer. It seems that the consensus is to purchase an entire kit. So much for trying to do my part and reduce waste in the world. Many of the parts can be re-used, but now I going to be throwing away parts that I know I'll never have need for in the future.

I'll give Steve a call in the morning and see if he can help me. Thank you for all the help guys.

 

[DRANO]

Never say never. Switches, stops, sleeves and the nylon collars all wear out eventually.

 

[Fifty]

I was mainly referring to the crank assembly and the metal pieces associated with it.

 

[Menace]

I keep ALL of the used parts I pull out of machines unless it's totally busted. You never know when you need somthnig in a pinch, or if the parts supplies will ever dry up!

D

 

[mwong168]

It seems there is no definitive answer. It seems that the consensus is to purchase an entire kit. So much for trying to do my part and reduce waste in the world. Many of the parts can be re-used, but now I going to be throwing away parts that I know I'll never have need for in the future.

I have never bought complete flipper rebuild kits and I usually keep a healthy stock of parts such as coil stops, sleeves, bushing, plunger link and crank assemblies to rebuild 4-6 games at any time or if my games don't meet SuperJackpot's (aka Barry) flipper standards.

Williams/Bally Flipper Coil Stop A-12111 (Games from 02/1988 to 04/1993)
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=273

Williams/Bally Flipper Coil Stop A-12390 (Games from 08/1993 to 06/1999)
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=272

2-3/16" Coil Sleeve
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=90

Williams/Bally Nylon Flipper Bushing
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=270

Williams/Bally Left Flipper Plunger and Crank Assembly
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=249

Williams/Bally Right Flipper Plunger and Crank Assembly
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=250

I am being wasteful buying the full plunger crank and assembly but they are less then $6 if you buy more then 10 from Pinball Life anyways. If you wanna save a bit of money and the environment you could re-use the old crank assembly and rebuild the following parts:

Williams/Bally Plunger and Link
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=253

Flipper Plunger and Crank Assembly Bushing
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=277

The other extra stuff that comes in these kits like screws, rubber gromet, nuts and springs, you can re-use unless they are worn or stripped/damaged during removal process. I keep all these in my general stock of bolts, washers and screws anyways. Incorrect hardware such as dry wall or robertson screws are a pet peeve of mine when I find them in games

I also keep a box of old used/worn parts like Menace because you never know in a pinch if you need to strip something temporarily at 1am to keep your game up and running.

 

[luch]

where's the superbands ! there Barry's favourites .

 

[mwong168]

where's the superbands ! there Barry's favourites .

They have been removed from all my games and went back to regular flipper rubber. I'm going to sell the entire bag soon along with a few other things after I sort through my parts.

 

[Vengeance]

I keep ALL of the used parts I pull out of machines unless it's totally busted. You never know when you need somthnig in a pinch, or if the parts supplies will ever dry up!

D

I do the same thing as well, but I'm at the point that I had to start throwing them out as I had more old used crappy parts then new ones.

 

[luch]

They have been removed from all my games and went back to regular flipper rubber. I'm going to sell the entire bag soon along with a few other things after I sort through my parts.

let me know , I'd be interested in the supers

 

[Fifty]

mwong have you ever had problems with PBL's 2-3/16" Coil Sleeves? I bought a bag of 50 from them and none of them fit in the coils. I emailed Terry about them and he told me I must have gotten a bad batch and asked me to send them back to him. I didn't have the time so I just ate the cost. I never did order them again. I still have them. I guess I'm scared to throw them out but the diameter is incorrect. Out of an entire lot of 50 I found one that slide into a new flipper coil without forcing it.

 

[atariaction]

I have had new sleeves that dont fit either.