It's important to remember too that they never designed these games to last forever. They were built to be rotated and eventually tossed. Thankfully though some of us crazy people find ways to keep them alive 
Brad's Rescue 911 Thread
- Thread starter brad808
- Start date
Thanks for all that Tim, I may have to take you up on that offer of seeing your machine. I'll probably be working most of this weekend though (gotta pay for these things somehow) but I'll see what I can do. It'll be good to get schooled on the rules of the game too, which I'm sure you're pretty familiar with.
While the design of the chopper is "interesting" , it's still bad lol. If it was good then mine would work, yours wouldn't look like a dog was chewing on it, and there wouldn't be numerous threads about the helicopter on this game not working right. I honestly think it was just a lazy design. They should have used a sprocket on the end instead of a friction wheel and had holes on the plate for a track. Then calculate the proper gears to be used under the helicopter so that at the top of the helicopter travel it's fully rotated in one direction and at the bottom of the travel it's fully in the other.
As far as what that loud noise is on mine I'm not too sure, I might have to take it apart again tonight and see if something is worn down or not sitting properly. I haven't looked too closely at that coupler either by I might need to buy that off you if mine is worn down.
Sent from my Nexus 4
While the design of the chopper is "interesting" , it's still bad lol. If it was good then mine would work, yours wouldn't look like a dog was chewing on it, and there wouldn't be numerous threads about the helicopter on this game not working right. I honestly think it was just a lazy design. They should have used a sprocket on the end instead of a friction wheel and had holes on the plate for a track. Then calculate the proper gears to be used under the helicopter so that at the top of the helicopter travel it's fully rotated in one direction and at the bottom of the travel it's fully in the other.
As far as what that loud noise is on mine I'm not too sure, I might have to take it apart again tonight and see if something is worn down or not sitting properly. I haven't looked too closely at that coupler either by I might need to buy that off you if mine is worn down.
Sent from my Nexus 4
tim.sanderson
Active Member
brad808 said:
No problemo.
It doesn't necessarily have to be on the weekend. I'm good on some weeknights too. I'll PM you my info and we can sort something out.
Had a minute last night to get back at it. Fixed that top kick out target simply by resoldering that loose wire in the picture.
Found a box of 47 bulbs in another of my games so I replaced a bunch more of the GI....Then all the playfield GI went out... . Basically what happened is one of the lamp sockets wasn't screwed down under the playfield so when I pushed down on the bulb from up top to replace it, it shorted out the line. Luckily the fuse caught it and lowes is close enough to my house that I was able to get it all back without too much trouble.
Also put a lot of time into the center target. I removed the "smart switch" and confirmed that the line itself was good simply by jumpering the wires together. I knew the smart switch was bad, tried cleaning it, tried a few different things and it was shot. The bracket was broken on it as well (which probably lead to the switch going bad).
I decided to make up a "dumb switch" with a piece of an old eos switch I had laying around that was broken. It's temporary for now but it works. fabricated another bracket and everything is good now. The final switch looks a little different because I had to modify it a bit but you get the idea.
So at this point everything works except for the right slingshot target!...or does it? I set it to factory settings and had a friend over and while to play a few games, kept restarting on us. I turned off game restart in settings and it seemed to stop. Then it kept "randomly" adding players while we were playing. Seems as though there is a problem with the start button. I haven't looked at any schematics yet to see if the start button is even part of the switch matrix but I'm thinking it's not (it doesn't show up in the matrix test). In the matrix test when I was holding start button I would get "inoperative pop bumper rubber" something like that. Messed around with the "pop bumper rubber" switch and it seemed to go away (I was messing in there while changing gi lights, may have been a problem with it). Not really sure if the two are related or not. I also noticed that once in a while it won't register a ball drain, hitting the flipper a few times seemed to remedy that. Not sure if it's the vibration caused or a switch matrix problem.
Actually one other thing to note, I "randomly" get "ball stuck call service technician" during play (sucks because I am the service technician). At this point that's as far as I've gotten, more testing to come. I want to keep messing with the helicopter too, I'm happy that it's working, but not how it's working.
Found a box of 47 bulbs in another of my games so I replaced a bunch more of the GI....Then all the playfield GI went out...
. Basically what happened is one of the lamp sockets wasn't screwed down under the playfield so when I pushed down on the bulb from up top to replace it, it shorted out the line. Luckily the fuse caught it and lowes is close enough to my house that I was able to get it all back without too much trouble.Also put a lot of time into the center target. I removed the "smart switch" and confirmed that the line itself was good simply by jumpering the wires together. I knew the smart switch was bad, tried cleaning it, tried a few different things and it was shot. The bracket was broken on it as well (which probably lead to the switch going bad).
I decided to make up a "dumb switch" with a piece of an old eos switch I had laying around that was broken. It's temporary for now but it works. fabricated another bracket and everything is good now. The final switch looks a little different because I had to modify it a bit but you get the idea.
So at this point everything works except for the right slingshot target!...or does it? I set it to factory settings and had a friend over and while to play a few games, kept restarting on us. I turned off game restart in settings and it seemed to stop. Then it kept "randomly" adding players while we were playing. Seems as though there is a problem with the start button. I haven't looked at any schematics yet to see if the start button is even part of the switch matrix but I'm thinking it's not (it doesn't show up in the matrix test). In the matrix test when I was holding start button I would get "inoperative pop bumper rubber" something like that. Messed around with the "pop bumper rubber" switch and it seemed to go away (I was messing in there while changing gi lights, may have been a problem with it). Not really sure if the two are related or not. I also noticed that once in a while it won't register a ball drain, hitting the flipper a few times seemed to remedy that. Not sure if it's the vibration caused or a switch matrix problem.
Actually one other thing to note, I "randomly" get "ball stuck call service technician" during play (sucks because I am the service technician). At this point that's as far as I've gotten, more testing to come. I want to keep messing with the helicopter too, I'm happy that it's working, but not how it's working.
g-man
Member
Nice work so far, Brad.
You've already spent more time on this machine than I would have.
That heli certainly seems like a poor design, On a couple of vids I have seen, the ball can also fall off too early.
Way 2 go.
You've already spent more time on this machine than I would have.
That heli certainly seems like a poor design, On a couple of vids I have seen, the ball can also fall off too early.
Way 2 go.
tim.sanderson
Active Member
I'm sure you'd have noticed already, but how wide is the gap between the contacts on the start buttons switch? On mine I have the slingshot switches so close together that sometimes they trigger by them selves a couple of times after the ball bounces off them.brad808 said:
Thanks gman. Thankfully the magnet on mine seems to function correctly. The magnet will release when you press the flipper though (it's supposed to because there are different holes you can drop it in).
@ Tim - to be honest I haven't looked at it yet but I will check it out first thing and make sure it's spaced far enough apart.
I've been researching the stuck ball message and I only really see one similar case and solution and that is to do with the optical switches. Makes sense if the light is dirty and only working sometime the game might think the ball is sitting there. That'll be the first thing I check as far as that issue.
This is what I found :
Gottlieb Water World Stops Working During Game Play and States "Ball Stuck Call Repair Person"
SYMPTOM
During game play game would end and display the above message
RESOLUTION
The customer originally told me it was when the balls got caught in the Sink the Deez lock area. I tested and the lower and upper opto worked. I then moved the Sink the Deez to be in the lock position and the 2 optos still worked.
I played the game and during game play, the Dive Hole would start to pop. One time it stopped on its own. The next it gave the above message. I went into switch test mode and left the game there for a while while I worked on another machine. No switches reported. I turned off the game. I took off the VUK and cleaned the optos with alcohol and a Q-tip. I put it back together and played it for over 10 minutes and it did not cause the above error. Hopefully the optos were just a little dirty.
The customer called back and the same problem continued. I checked Clay's guides. I reflowed the solder on the opto boards. This seems to have solved the problem.
Sent from my Nexus 4
@ Tim - to be honest I haven't looked at it yet but I will check it out first thing and make sure it's spaced far enough apart.
I've been researching the stuck ball message and I only really see one similar case and solution and that is to do with the optical switches. Makes sense if the light is dirty and only working sometime the game might think the ball is sitting there. That'll be the first thing I check as far as that issue.
This is what I found :
Gottlieb Water World Stops Working During Game Play and States "Ball Stuck Call Repair Person"
SYMPTOM
During game play game would end and display the above message
RESOLUTION
The customer originally told me it was when the balls got caught in the Sink the Deez lock area. I tested and the lower and upper opto worked. I then moved the Sink the Deez to be in the lock position and the 2 optos still worked.
I played the game and during game play, the Dive Hole would start to pop. One time it stopped on its own. The next it gave the above message. I went into switch test mode and left the game there for a while while I worked on another machine. No switches reported. I turned off the game. I took off the VUK and cleaned the optos with alcohol and a Q-tip. I put it back together and played it for over 10 minutes and it did not cause the above error. Hopefully the optos were just a little dirty.
The customer called back and the same problem continued. I checked Clay's guides. I reflowed the solder on the opto boards. This seems to have solved the problem.
Sent from my Nexus 4
Tim would it be possible for you to test something for me? no rush. Assuming your machine is working correctly, could you activate one of the opto switches either by leaving a ball in there or sticking your finger in the hole (heh) and at the same time activating other random switches for a while. I'm curious to see when the game is functioning correctly if it's supposed to enter the stuck ball mode while switches are still being hit or if there is something else wrong with mine that isn't switch related.
Sent from my Nexus 4
Sent from my Nexus 4
tim.sanderson
Active Member
Sure dude, I'll try it a little later this morning/afternoon. I'm not sure that will cause a similar problem though, because I have the top center ball drop opto covered with a piece of tape due to it acting up and being triggered whenever I press the flippers. (It's not a big deal against game play, as I think it is only worth one life in one mode) I think it has something to do with the board problem I have. Blocking that particular opto hasn't had any other effect on the game. I'll try messing with the top kick opto, as well as switch 23 in the outhole.
Does it ever give the ball error when the ball is resting in the outhole or shooter lane, or only when it is in play?
If you suspect it's your opto boards, it may very well be. I had to remove all of mine to re-solder the LED's to the board. They were all loose, and would would work very intermittently.
http://www.multiball.org/2013/05/broken ... oints.html
Just heading out to AA and Sayal to see what I can spend my money on. I'll test it when I get back.
Does it ever give the ball error when the ball is resting in the outhole or shooter lane, or only when it is in play?
If you suspect it's your opto boards, it may very well be. I had to remove all of mine to re-solder the LED's to the board. They were all loose, and would would work very intermittently.
http://www.multiball.org/2013/05/broken ... oints.html
Just heading out to AA and Sayal to see what I can spend my money on.
I'll test it when I get back.
tim.sanderson said:
It's hard to say because the error appears so "randomly".
I wrote someone a message on pinside and they suspected opto switches as well. I've now cleaned them with alcohol (rubbing for the sensors, whisky for me
)and qtips and I did notice one on the rail was pretty lose. Took the rail off and tightened that up so it wasn't wobbly. You can see in the picture how far out the screw is and how much play that would give it.
I also applied pressure to all the connectors and rom chips and checked the 5v line to see if it was off (it was fine) just to see if anything was weird there.
Fixed the shooter spring best I could this morning. Basically cut off and the messed up parts of the spring so it's a little weak now but at least it works.
Had noticed a problem with the ball drain not registering once in a while, was convinced it was a matrix problem of some sort but noticed I could always get it to register using the flipper. I found this thread http://rgparchive.com/rgpforum/showthre ... 517&page=4 where multiple people confirm that I'm not crazy and that it occurs on this game (possibly only in certain rescue missions under certain circumstances). A bit of a relief actually because now I can stop chasing the problem and put it to the back burner.
This one is a little strange though, I mentioned before the "random" credits being added, I think I may have it narrowed down. It seems when the service switch in the coin door is closed weird things will happen. Service switch open and things run perfect for quite a few games in a row. A few friends and I put this to the test last night by playing a few games door open, no problems. Closed the door, played two games and both games had problems with random credits and other "funky" things. Opened the door, played probably 30 games after without issue.
Also saw on a couple threads (i think rgp) where people had added low grit sand paper on the track for their helicopter, so I know I'm not the only one now. I looked around trying to find where that loud noise is coming from when the helicopter moves but I just can seem to pinpoint it. I might have to disassemble the whole thing and see what's grinding. I can get it to make the sound without power just by manually moving the chopper arm.
I think next on the agenda is going to be the right slingshot... not sure why but I'm avoiding that one like the plague.
I knew there was a reason I was avoiding that right slingshot... :evil:
So on the left slingshot I get voltage at both coil lugs, on the right slingshot I only get it on one. OK. Check the wire continuity between coil lug and plug at the driver board and it checks out, so no breaks in the wire. Swap transistors on the driver board, nothing changed (granted I swapped it with a transistor I'm not 100% sure works haha. I used Q17 which is the shooter lane dome light, I'm thinking it has a bad bulb in it but I will eventually doulbe check that, for now I'm assuming it works fine...). Now what? What's the next step in tracing that power back?
So on the left slingshot I get voltage at both coil lugs, on the right slingshot I only get it on one. OK. Check the wire continuity between coil lug and plug at the driver board and it checks out, so no breaks in the wire. Swap transistors on the driver board, nothing changed (granted I swapped it with a transistor I'm not 100% sure works haha. I used Q17 which is the shooter lane dome light, I'm thinking it has a bad bulb in it but I will eventually doulbe check that, for now I'm assuming it works fine...). Now what? What's the next step in tracing that power back?
Pretty sure I've come to the conclusion that the coil itself is bad and has a break in the wire somewhere. After researching the no power on one lug that seems to be the consensus. I also get no continuity between the two lugs on that coil but I do on all other coils.
Looks like the knocker uses the same coil so I'm going to try the swap tonight... Much rather have a slingshot than a knocker at this point.
Sent from my Nexus 4
Looks like the knocker uses the same coil so I'm going to try the swap tonight... Much rather have a slingshot than a knocker at this point.
Sent from my Nexus 4
brad808 said:
Good call! That's actually one of the reasons why the knocker is there in the first place. Operators used to use them as back-up coils all the time
Glad to see this game is coming together for you, Brad.
tim.sanderson
Active Member
So I ended up finding a break at the coil wire to the lug, repaired that... Still nothing. Piggy backed the coil off the left slingshot and it works! Damn that means it's something else...
Back to the driver board, pull Q5 again (right kicking rubber) and swap in Q30 (known good knocker transistor) hook it all back up.... Victory! Boo yah!
Now I apparently need a couple transistors. I still haven't ordered anything so I figure in another week I'll have a few more little things I want so I'll just place one big order.
Lesson of the day make sure you are replacing bad parts with good parts! My being lazy and assuming it was all working caused more problems.
Edit : guess I should check and see if there are any unused ones on the driver board I can snag before I order some more.
Edit 2 : looks like Q27 (ticket and coin meter) would be a good candidate for a donor.
Sent from my Nexus 4
Back to the driver board, pull Q5 again (right kicking rubber) and swap in Q30 (known good knocker transistor) hook it all back up.... Victory! Boo yah!
Now I apparently need a couple transistors. I still haven't ordered anything so I figure in another week I'll have a few more little things I want so I'll just place one big order.
Lesson of the day make sure you are replacing bad parts with good parts! My being lazy and assuming it was all working caused more problems.
Edit : guess I should check and see if there are any unused ones on the driver board I can snag before I order some more.
Edit 2 : looks like Q27 (ticket and coin meter) would be a good candidate for a donor.
Sent from my Nexus 4
Fixed the knocker now by swapping in a working transistor.
Also fixed that grinding noise from the helicopter... It just needed a good ol' fashion wd40'n (you know what they say if you can't fix it with duct tape and wd40 then you didn't use enough). Removed the gears and lubed them all up and put them back together, now it rides nice and smooth.
Still a bit of noise coming from the ball lift motor. I sprayed those gears too but I believe it's actually coming from the motor.
I think I have all the major parts of the game fixed now. Basically just tweaking things at this point. The pop bumpers aren't very sensitive so I took one apart last night but there really isn't a whole lot to them you can adjust. I'll look at it again tonight and see if I can get them working more frequently. I think they have those smart switches on them too so I'm not sure what can be done.
Sent from my Nexus 4
Also fixed that grinding noise from the helicopter... It just needed a good ol' fashion wd40'n (you know what they say if you can't fix it with duct tape and wd40 then you didn't use enough). Removed the gears and lubed them all up and put them back together, now it rides nice and smooth.
Still a bit of noise coming from the ball lift motor. I sprayed those gears too but I believe it's actually coming from the motor.
I think I have all the major parts of the game fixed now. Basically just tweaking things at this point. The pop bumpers aren't very sensitive so I took one apart last night but there really isn't a whole lot to them you can adjust. I'll look at it again tonight and see if I can get them working more frequently. I think they have those smart switches on them too so I'm not sure what can be done.
Sent from my Nexus 4
Slow progress lately, life keeps getting in the way and I'm waiting for an order of parts to come in. Got the game moved into my game area though. Glad I held off on getting new legs because I actually prefer it with short legs in between two taller machines. Gives people a bit more room while playing.
Noticed the helicopter was dropping the ball randomly a few times (like g-man mentioned earlier). Ripped the wiring apart and sure enough found a wire that has been used and abused from years of rotating and split in half. The wire is for the magnet...
Haven't actually gotten around to replacing it yet but often times finding the problem is more of a battle. I'm just going to solder all new harness together. Figure do them all at once and get it done with.
Sent from my Nexus 4
Noticed the helicopter was dropping the ball randomly a few times (like g-man mentioned earlier). Ripped the wiring apart and sure enough found a wire that has been used and abused from years of rotating and split in half. The wire is for the magnet...
Haven't actually gotten around to replacing it yet but often times finding the problem is more of a battle. I'm just going to solder all new harness together. Figure do them all at once and get it done with.
Sent from my Nexus 4
Attachments
Got the helicopter wired up and reinstalled today. Works great. Judging by how much pressure gets put on those wires I won't be surprised if it happens again at some point. I thought about using some multi wire cable but was worried about the amount of resistance it would put on the helicopter spin so I separated them out from the cable. If it happens again at some point I might try to leave them in the casing to see if it helps prevent wear.
The picture is uninteresting so I added some vintage effect to spice it up... Plus I can't get rid of it out of my post for some reason so it is what it is.
I think the game plan at this point is basically just play it until I notice something else wrong. Wait a couple weeks for the rubbers and lights to come in. If poordom (the combination of being poor and bored) starts to set in hard I might clean up the legs a bit.
Sent from my Nexus 4
The picture is uninteresting so I added some vintage effect to spice it up... Plus I can't get rid of it out of my post for some reason so it is what it is.
I think the game plan at this point is basically just play it until I notice something else wrong. Wait a couple weeks for the rubbers and lights to come in. If poordom (the combination of being poor and bored) starts to set in hard I might clean up the legs a bit.
Sent from my Nexus 4
