EM Pinball Machine - What is your favourite?
- Thread starter WARLOCK
- Start date
Vengeance
Well-Known Member
I'll take the other 
But IMO Volley isn't the greatest EM ever.
For me it needs risk/reward
That's why Sonic games are my favorite, Mars Trek or Monaco are both excellent EM's.
Simple games, build bonus, collect bonus and double bonus.
What I love is that the double bonus only collects when the ball drains, not on the collect, so the player has to choose risk vs reward once the bonus is maxed out, do they play it safe and just take their 200,000 when they drain, or collect and try and build to back up again.
My biggest issue with most of the popular EM's is you reach a point where playing where you go, out bonus is maxed and I've done everything now what. That's what bugs me about most of them.
C37 is a perfect example of that, everyone loves the game, but there is so little to actually do on the game, I've never understood why it's so loved and I borrowed one for a time.
But IMO Volley isn't the greatest EM ever.
For me it needs risk/reward
That's why Sonic games are my favorite, Mars Trek or Monaco are both excellent EM's.
Simple games, build bonus, collect bonus and double bonus.
What I love is that the double bonus only collects when the ball drains, not on the collect, so the player has to choose risk vs reward once the bonus is maxed out, do they play it safe and just take their 200,000 when they drain, or collect and try and build to back up again.
My biggest issue with most of the popular EM's is you reach a point where playing where you go, out bonus is maxed and I've done everything now what. That's what bugs me about most of them.
C37 is a perfect example of that, everyone loves the game, but there is so little to actually do on the game, I've never understood why it's so loved and I borrowed one for a time.
WARLOCK said:
Ugh, I know, Drano told me last night. See our previous conversation about not wanting to go down that rabbit hole!
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DRANO
Super Member
spiroagnew said:
Oh Rob :FP:
I apologize.
Volley is good fun. Considering the theme/art does nothing for me and the layout seems almost ridiculous (like shooting fish in a barrel), it has its charm doesn't it?
Vengeance said:
I'll do my best to attempt a response that does the game justice.
The easy, simple answer is that people love and play these games for many reasons that have little or nothing to do with simple risk vs. reward.
The longer answer regarding C37
I don't know. It has a relatively unique layout for an EM. It was mimicked on Atlantis a little, but it plays differently than almost every other wedgehead.
The game actually has a little bit of a storyline (as much as an EM can I suppose) and that's sorta unique. You're the mad scientist and you have to animate this girl on the backglass by getting the thermometer up to 37 Centigrade (body temp) by rolling the ball over lit inserts... which are always alternating. This is a very cool representation of the bonus and also lights the special at the saucer.
Not even sure if it qualifies as a bonus really?
The game has 3 very distinct 'elements' that you can use to achieve this goal.
The first is the bagatelle on the right side of the playfield. Since getting lit inserts is the key to racking up the score and reaching special, the bagatelle offers the fastest way of doing this. But, as your ball drops down like Plinko, it also quickly approaches the right outlane with a big dangerous gap, similar to jacks open, that will drain your ball 90% of the time. So, do you let the ball works it's way down and collect as many inserts as possible to get that thermometer moving, or do you try and jar it out of the bagatelle early and play it safe? I think that's a good element of risk vs. reward (for an EM anyway).
The next area is the rollovers and the saucer.
Rollovers A,B,C & D each light up one of the 4 drop targets... making them count towards the thermometer and increasing their value. They also light up one of the four green inserts in front of the saucer, making the saucer worth an additional 1000pts per lit insert per hit.
Now, get all four lit, and you get an immediate 5000pts and the thermometer advances 5 steps!
Not sure (because I haven't done it in a while) but I think all future shots to that saucer may now give you another 5 step advance? Will have to verify that.
Lastly, you have the four drop targets themselves and the two alternating stand-ups on the right.
So, knock down all four targets and the two right stand-ups alternate for 5000pts or Double Advance; the latter making every lit insert/rollover worth two thermometer steps instead of one... bot only for that ball!
However, if you collect the 5000pt target first, the option for Double Advance goes away. If you manage to get DA first, the 5000pts is still available to be collected... which also re-sets the targets, giving you even more to shoot at and use for advancing.
Again, I think this offers a good little bit of risk vs. reward.
So, now you've managed to get the thermometer all the way to the top and you get the glorious flasher blinking at the top signalling the special is lit at the saucer... which also glows red.
I suppose this is where the game now has "very little to do" because all that's left is trying to hit that saucer as a many times as possible to collect the special and hear that knock
For most of us mere mortals, that doesn't happen all that often and, being able to hit that shot repeatedly on ball 4 or 5 for repeated specials is pretty satisfying. However, you're correct in the fact that you have essentially already "beat" the game and exhausted the bonus.
At this point, the saucer is really the only thing to shoot for.
Still, as EMs go (and they're almost all pretty limited) I'd argue that there is plenty on C37 to keep you busy and you can try for a few different things that can all lead to a faster chance at a special.
I haven't tried the games you mentioned, but if they have more depth, I'm in!
I won't get into the glorious artwork on C37 and the genius of incorporating the animated backbox into the game, for the era at least, but I think the game has a lot of legs and deserves the love it gets.
People really love a game like El Dorado and, to me, it's just about knocking down every single target and chasing the lit one. Still satisfying, but very one dimensional. However, it does re-set so you can start all over, so that's a plus.
Anyway, that's my two cents.
Sweet game analysis on C-37.
Drano heavily influenced my EM purchases last year.
Top 3 EM's for me: (All Gottleib Wedgeheads)
Volley (Example #3 goes in my office next week) - Thanks Barry.
C-37 (In my office) - Thanks Wong for finding it and McMean for making it bulletproof years ago.
Jack's Open (In my office) - Thanks Drano.
Honourable mention:
Golden Arrow (still looking for one)
El-Dorado (Or Target Alpha 4 player version in my case - my first EM purchase)
Sure Shot (Sweet - and gone to a better home)
Oxo (Mine is in Montreal and will return home in nicer weather)
Toledo (Love this game - Set up @ my shop - Technically Brock's pin and is for sale)
Kingpin (Sweet - and gone to a better home)
Next on deck to work on:
Seven Up
Just need to check with a couple of guys who had dibs on Volley #1 and Volley #2.
If they pass, off they can go to:
Revolution (Brock)
Vengeance (Adam)
That is my entire EM story... (Although I have really only been paying attention to them for about 9 months or so)
Drano heavily influenced my EM purchases last year.
Top 3 EM's for me: (All Gottleib Wedgeheads)
Volley (Example #3 goes in my office next week) - Thanks Barry.
C-37 (In my office) - Thanks Wong for finding it and McMean for making it bulletproof years ago.
Jack's Open (In my office) - Thanks Drano.
Honourable mention:
Golden Arrow (still looking for one)
El-Dorado (Or Target Alpha 4 player version in my case - my first EM purchase)
Sure Shot (Sweet - and gone to a better home)
Oxo (Mine is in Montreal and will return home in nicer weather)
Toledo (Love this game - Set up @ my shop - Technically Brock's pin and is for sale)
Kingpin (Sweet - and gone to a better home)
Next on deck to work on:
Seven Up
Just need to check with a couple of guys who had dibs on Volley #1 and Volley #2.
If they pass, off they can go to:
Revolution (Brock)
Vengeance (Adam)
That is my entire EM story... (Although I have really only been paying attention to them for about 9 months or so)
superjackpot
Active Member
DRANO said:
Getting a 'Special When Lit' in all types of pinball games for me has truly lost it's appeal since I started playing pinball at home on freeplay. It is the single reason I moved out my (very fast and beautifully restored) Target Alpha as quickly as I did. The targets won't reset within a single ball leaving you chasing one or two lights... the extra ball (one and done) and special (oh, yippee).
Reaching your points based specials does have its appeal on home games. It means you've achieved a certain points total(s), which still is an objective for me. I mean that's why we have score reels... not to mention the aural reward. But 'special when lit' really means very little now since I don't pay for my games. Similarly, BITD, draining via the outlane and taking a special light on the way out was good compensation, but not any more.
When an EM taps out like this it's playability is dependent on what's left to do, IMO. Some games have more than others. Some EMs reset things between balls, others do not. Of course not every player frequently reaches this dead end. Skill etc. play a factor, but after a while, if you do, you will tire of playing it in a smaller collection, even though you may still enjoy having/seeing/reliving/admiring it in your collection. Not looking to discuss the nuances of player vs. collector here.
Now on Volley for example, the drop targets always reset right away when you drop all 15, and you can continue to get the satisfaction of knocking them down and possibly getting them all to reset yet again (and again). And since it is an EM, hitting two adjacent drop targets at once doesn't score both as the scoring mechs are not fast enough. There is always the challenge of hitting singles in a bank of 5 (e.g. hitting 1, 3, 5 then 2 and 4) for maximum pointage :geek: , or trying cross bank combos that take enough time between successive hits to score both.
I am far from being an expert as I've only scraped the surface in my EM explorations. However, with space an issue and the considerations above, it's my EMs that are leaving now in favour of more SS machines.
Vengeance
Well-Known Member
Yea specials mean next to nothing to me on EM's, and if special wasn't a random award on most DMD's I'm partial to setting it to actually be worth points as they there is an actual reason to collect it.
Stern does a good job on their machines of making specials hard to get and being worth a decent amount of points.
But I digress, I still don't see the value behind C37, getting the thermometer to the top doesn't matter, you don't get any extra score for that achievement, and as discussed specials mean nothing in the home environment.
I like to feel something when I play a game, be that elation or defeat, C37 doesn't elicit either response from me, it's just batting a ball around the PF and getting points.
It's why I like Monaco/Mars Trek, nothing in an EM is more awesome then collecting a full bonus count with double lit and the racking it back up again, and on the opposite end of the spectrum nothing is more of a kick in the teeth then racking up a max double bonus and then draining right after the collect.
Stern does a good job on their machines of making specials hard to get and being worth a decent amount of points.
But I digress, I still don't see the value behind C37, getting the thermometer to the top doesn't matter, you don't get any extra score for that achievement, and as discussed specials mean nothing in the home environment.
I like to feel something when I play a game, be that elation or defeat, C37 doesn't elicit either response from me, it's just batting a ball around the PF and getting points.
It's why I like Monaco/Mars Trek, nothing in an EM is more awesome then collecting a full bonus count with double lit and the racking it back up again, and on the opposite end of the spectrum nothing is more of a kick in the teeth then racking up a max double bonus and then draining right after the collect.
Outside of league play, Loonie and Twoonie throwdowns on EM machine's are quite popular
both here and in QC at social pin gatherings. We play for specials, not score, and sometimes
beverages make you better as you play. All in good fun.
In league play or the home environment, I understand they are not relevant since we are not
using the machines as coin-op money making devices.
Joker Poker SS is even better for this. Glad Barry and Drano both have copies of this machine.
JP is fantastic for the best elements found in EM's. Overly fun.
Oh, I forgot about my 2 "Supersonic" EM Zac's.
Gotta have a Zac hanging around, just like a gold bling chain....
Must go try this Sonic Monaco/Mars Trek Adam mentioned.
both here and in QC at social pin gatherings. We play for specials, not score, and sometimes
beverages make you better as you play. All in good fun.
In league play or the home environment, I understand they are not relevant since we are not
using the machines as coin-op money making devices.
Joker Poker SS is even better for this. Glad Barry and Drano both have copies of this machine.
JP is fantastic for the best elements found in EM's. Overly fun.
Oh, I forgot about my 2 "Supersonic" EM Zac's.
Gotta have a Zac hanging around, just like a gold bling chain....
Must go try this Sonic Monaco/Mars Trek Adam mentioned.
As an aside, I don't recommend loony throwdowns on DMD pins against Adam.. you'll be waiting forever.
Vengeance
Well-Known Member
REVOLUTION said:As an aside, I don't recommend loony throwdowns on DMD pins against Adam.. you'll be waiting forever.
I do, I like taking your loonies
DRANO
Super Member
I'm really keen to try these Sonic games now. Most EMs I've played really dont do 'bonuses', much less allow you to collect them during play.
I'll agree with Barry and Adam that specials are sort of pointless in a home environment... but only the ones that are points related.
I don't even pay attention to specials on a DMD or SS. But, on an EM, a special that is acheived by reaching a goal is still pretty cool because it still requires you to do something; usually a tricky shot. And, when you do, you are not only rewarded with the cool snap of the knocker, but decent points. I get a thrill out of that for sure.
For me, a 'special' on an EM game that must be hit is the same as hitting a jackpot on a more modern game.
This is where a game like El Dorado or Golden Arrow have a leg up on C37. I think C37 is the more dynamic layout and I like the variety of elements, but on games like ED, GA and others, you must chase down the special after you've reached the objective; it's not just a simple saucer shot. For me, this adds a level of interest and challenge because you're trying to move the special to a raised drop target on ED or chase the lit 'golden arrow' on GA, which is not always an easy task. I've had great fun playing these games with several people where we were ignoring the score and just competing to see who could get the most specials in one game (not via points of course).
On a side note.
I know it's an early ss, but one of my favorite specials to collect is spelling DELUXE on EBD!
Another great EM example is Gottlieb Spin Out. You need to light any 4 inserts in a row between 1-7 to get a special. But, if you are skillful and take the risk of waiting to collect 1,2,3,_,5,6,7 and then wait to collect the #4 last on the roto-target, the game will reward you with 5 fast knocks and 5 credits! It's an awesome (somewhat secret) feature that most players will never even see.
I'll agree with Barry and Adam that specials are sort of pointless in a home environment... but only the ones that are points related.
I don't even pay attention to specials on a DMD or SS. But, on an EM, a special that is acheived by reaching a goal is still pretty cool because it still requires you to do something; usually a tricky shot. And, when you do, you are not only rewarded with the cool snap of the knocker, but decent points. I get a thrill out of that for sure.
For me, a 'special' on an EM game that must be hit is the same as hitting a jackpot on a more modern game.
This is where a game like El Dorado or Golden Arrow have a leg up on C37. I think C37 is the more dynamic layout and I like the variety of elements, but on games like ED, GA and others, you must chase down the special after you've reached the objective; it's not just a simple saucer shot. For me, this adds a level of interest and challenge because you're trying to move the special to a raised drop target on ED or chase the lit 'golden arrow' on GA, which is not always an easy task. I've had great fun playing these games with several people where we were ignoring the score and just competing to see who could get the most specials in one game (not via points of course).
On a side note.
I know it's an early ss, but one of my favorite specials to collect is spelling DELUXE on EBD!
Another great EM example is Gottlieb Spin Out. You need to light any 4 inserts in a row between 1-7 to get a special. But, if you are skillful and take the risk of waiting to collect 1,2,3,_,5,6,7 and then wait to collect the #4 last on the roto-target, the game will reward you with 5 fast knocks and 5 credits! It's an awesome (somewhat secret) feature that most players will never even see.
