Man dies in street showdown with police

[mwong168]

The Star: Man dies in street showdown with police

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Pi4In494rAg[/youtube]

Tasered after being shot 9x, it must have been one hell of a knife.

I hope most of the shots were warning shots to scare the 18 year old otherwise it seems to be a bit excessive on the officer's part considering there were no hostages on board the street car.

 

[frolic]

If guns are drawn, it is deadly force. Cops don't shoot warning shots or aim for arms or legs.

They are trained though, so I'm sure this was by the book. Guy with knife (also deadly force) is threatening, doesn't leave them many options.

 

[superjackpot]

Was nine bullets necessary?

 

[DRANO]

Wow.
Wonder what the guy was on? No way any average (sober) person is taking that many shots and still need to be tased

Any bets on how long this video stays up?

 

[mwong168]

Was nine bullets necessary?

I mean it wasn't a hostile situation or gun stand off so not sure why they didn't just take the time to try harder to convince him to put the knife down. Worse case toss in a few cans of tear gas and maybe use the taser once flushed out? The video will probably remain up or else there are many versions of it posted up on youtube anyways.

 

[Pharoah007]

none of us were there.

none of us have a stranger who may or may not be on drugs not complying with our lawful orders, and a wife and kids at home waiting for YOU to come home alive.

You would be surprise how many times YOU would squeeze the trigger in that situation.


All that said, I do not see why the police could not have withdrawn from the bus and took their time with a negotiation...looks like "comply or die" to me.

 

[g-man]

Come on....half a dozen cops have a guy pinned down in a streetcar with a knife and from 15 feet away they have to pump nine bullets into him over a 10 to 15 second period ??? Clearly the testosterone got the better of them. If this was by the book, then the book needs rewriting. I'm with Mike...how about some teargas ? Or, how about tasering him BEFORE pulling the trigger ? Isn't that kinda why they have tasers ? At the very least how about some bullets in the leg? Deadly force can only be used when life is at risk. Hard to make that argument here, I'm afraid.

 

[frolic]

Dunno, this is not normal, we don't have cowboy cops popping caps regularly, so that's why I am not quick to judge and will wait to hear what comes of the investigation.

 

[Vengeance]

Put yourself in their shoes, perhaps there are other options but once someone comes at you with a knife, are you going to keep shouting "Put the Knife down!"

I don't have all the details, but with just information we have, I've got no issue at all with the use of force.

If he had put the knife down, this wouldn't have happened, simple.

At the very least how about some bullets in the leg?

Have you ever fired a firearm Glenn?

Let me tell you, it's not as easy to aim as you think it is, it's even harder on a moving target, and ever harder still to hit something as small as someones leg.

Then you have to take into account what happens if you miss, which will most likely happen if you try and shoot someone in the leg or arm, bullet could ricochet and hit a fellow officer or some poor innocent bystander.

The chest is a nice wide target, with lots of meat, the hallow points break apart inside the chest making sure that no one but the target is injured.

That's why when cops shoot, it's usually shoot to kill, it's much safer for everyone else involved.

It's unfortunate, but if you want to threaten a police officer it's the inevitable result.

 

[mwong168]

Or, how about tasering him BEFORE pulling the trigger ? Isn't that kinda why they have tasers ?

This latest video posted on the star (or youtube) had the best sound quality and you can clearly make out the taser after the 9 shots were fired. I was listening to 1010AM on the way into work this morning and apparently only senior officers are allowed to carry or use tasers. I hope the star will follow up in a few days after the SIU does their investigation so the father of the dead 18 year old can get some sort of closure or explanation as to why things turned out the way they did.

Let me tell you, it's not as easy to aim as you think it is, it's even harder on a moving target, and ever harder still to hit something as small as someones leg.

You should come shooting with some of my Russian friends (ex military) and see how their aim is for stationary and moving targets

 

[frolic]

I've talked to a cops specifically about shooting to disable, like in the movies. plain fact is guns are deadly weapons and they shoot to kill. if they hit an arm or leg, they missed their target.

 

[g-man]

The thing is, there is no sense putting myself in their shoes. I have not been trained at the expense of the taxpayers to learn how to use ( and just as importantly, when NOT to use ) a firearm. Neither have I had any training in how to distinguish between situations that require deadly force and those that do not. I would expect that these officers have had such training ( and re-training ) and if they have not then that is also a bad reflection on our current law enforcement situation.

I'm simply not ready to move one step closer to the frontier justice that is so often practiced in the U.S. Today it is a man with a knife. Next it will be a man with a smaller knife and and after that, a man with a fork.

Threatening police officers with a knife at a distance of 15 feet while in an enclosed space is not a situation that requires deadly force.

No one can convince me that these half dozen officers had no other choice.

 

[mwong168]

Today it is a man with a knife. Next it will be a man with a smaller knife and and after that, a man with a fork.

How about last year with a pair of scissors? :?

The SIU: An anatomy of the Michael Eligon case

I think what will come out of this is the police will need to revisit their procedures on how to handle situations that involve the mentally ill if this latest case where Sammy Yatim was in a stable frame of mind or not.

 

[Menace]

I find myself falling into the same camp as Glenn on this one... Based on what was depicted in the vid, I would think the officers had plenty of other non-lethal options to choose from at the point shots were fired.

D

 

[brad808]

Dunno what to say. I heard drop the knife quite a few times before I heard shots. What did he think would happen if he held onto the knife?

 

[Pharoah007]

I have been trained by our tax dollars on how to properly employ many types of small arms.

I have NEVER been taught how to shoot someone in the leg...Center of mass, min 2 shots.

As Adam says..Good luck getting that leg shot off.


Bottom line...brandish a knife at cops...your playing a dangerous game.

 

[eh97ac]

“So I looked at the back of the streetcar and saw that the gentlemen had stepped out of his seat and threatened them with a knife, and was holding the penis is his hand as well.”
Jeremy Ing was a passenger on the street car. He remembers his early morning ride interrupted by girls screaming.

http://globalnews.ca/news/747060/18-yea ... treet-car/

I saw Jeremy's interview last night, shaken bu well spoken individual. He also stated a vacant look on the victim's face.....remember people, this guy was on that street car!!!!

 

[g-man]

I have been trained by our tax dollars on how to properly employ many types of small arms.

I have NEVER been taught how to shoot someone in the leg...Center of mass, min 2 shots.

As Adam says..Good luck getting that leg shot off.


Bottom line...brandish a knife at cops...your playing a dangerous game.

Okay, I think it's important to not focus too much on the "shoot him in the leg" thing. Even though with six officers, one of them should be able to do so, and not to mention the fact that they don't have to stay 15 feet away but could approach much closer, let's just let the leg thing go. I guess our police are not trained to do so. But exactly how are you in danger when you are holding a gun and the other guy is holding a knife ? Sounds like they wanted to end this thing too quickly. Hell, the guy who mutilated that guy on a greyhound bus a few years back was tasered and arrested. How was that possible ? Well, for one thing, they spent a lot of time thinking of how to contain him. From the video, it doesn't look like any effort was made to lock him in the streetcar. The rear exit wasn't even being guarded or obstructed. Where was the psychologist ? You can see the confusion. The officers don't quite know where to stand or how to proceed. Also, keep in mind this guy was not a proven killer. He had pulled the knife earlier and ordered everyone off the streetcar.

I think the police force needs more effective training in taser deployment. I mean, the taser is the weapon of choice ( it has to be ) in some countries.

 

[stiffler4444]

Hmmm...considering you can kill an unarmed soldier with a meat cleaver in the UK, with the police responsing about 30 minutes later...I'd say they acted failry expidiciously in containing this situation........my 2 cents. :!:

Run around in public with a deadly weapon acting like a lunatic.....whether it's sucicide or other, there are much much larger attrocities going on every day to distract me from this.

What if he was threatening a HUO Tron or CV with that knife....making stabbing motions at a mint MM cab...you'd all have your chambers emptied into him in no time..... :lol:

 

[movingpictures]

i can't stand these bleeding-hearts protesting the death of a psycho. :FP:

"a young man — later identified by friends as Yatim — brandished a knife and ordered everyone off"

the kid took over a streetcar with a deadly weapon, pulled out his cock, and YET we have people crying that the cops should have used pepper-spray! what a joke!

the kid was being a dangerous menace to society, swinging around a knife. damn right he should have been shot.