Next JJP - Avatar

[MrMikeman]

JJP have priced themselves out of business. It's only a matter of time.

I also can't believe how little their games have (other than EJ which IS in fact packed). Y'all are getting dazzled by hundreds of addressable LEDs. This does not make a game "packed". TS4, GF, GnR. All flashy and blinky but not much substance.

 

[ZoomZoomBoomBoom]

If the whole market was LEs I would agree with you. The vast majority of people are not LE buyers.

Unfortunately for JJP they have limited their entire company pinball demand to LE type buyers.

Valid point.

 

[ZoomZoomBoomBoom]

JJP have priced themselves out of business. It's only a matter of time.

I also can't believe how little their games have (other than EJ which IS in fact packed). Y'all are getting dazzled by hundreds of addressable LEDs. This does not make a game "packed". TS4, GF, GnR. All flashy and blinky but not much substance.

Sorry, but I think you are 100% incorrect.
JJP makes a smaller amount of machines and have not extended themselves with crazy high overhead like Stern.
You don't need to be the biggest to be profitable.

Oz, Hobbit and POTC have the deepest rule sets/ amount of modes of any pins ever made.
Far beyond anything anyone has ever put out.

The problem with JJP games, is if you don't own them and just play them casually/ on location, you never really get the full experience.
In they were making movies; Stern makes action movies and JJP makes drama's.

 

[king_pin]

Sadly at 12k USD and with the shit kicking they take on the used market, it just doesn't make sense for me to buy NIB JJP. Prime example. TS4CE for 12.5k currently listed. That's a 15k USD game nib ~23k CAD. Almost a 50% haircut off new.

 

[Richard McLaughlin]

Sadly at 12k USD and with the shit kicking they take on the used market, it just doesn't make sense for me to buy NIB JJP. Prime example. TS4CE for 12.5k currently listed. That's a 15k USD game nib ~23k CAD. Almost a 50% haircut off new.

Yeah, I got such a good deal on my used GnR LE. Makes it hard to pay $12k plus tax and ship for a new LE.

 

[ZoomZoomBoomBoom]

Yes, some of their machines seem to have depreciated significantly, however OZ and Hobbit have held their value and POTC was not exactly a bad investment for the early buyers.
I think certain titles depreciate faster/ more than others. It's not exactly due to the manufacturer.
There are a lot of Sterns on the used market well under MSRP, same with Spooky, American and Williams.
However, there are always the stand out titles that retain their value and even appreciate. (Rick & Morty, Indiana Jones etc).

As someone who buys from various manufacturers, I believe they all have their strengths and weaknesses and cater to different purchasing priorities.
I just think we should be fair and objective in comparing the machines/ companies.

 

[ZoomZoomBoomBoom]

Avatar: The Battle For Pandora Pinball - Official Deep Dive​

So, I mistakenly believed that this was only themed on the second movie.
It is actually both movies.
I have to admit, as skeptical as I was last week about "another Avatar pin", I'm really impressed with what they have done.
I absolutely love how they have all the proper film assets, the lighting is truly next level and the "mando" topper looks great on the CE.
I kind of want one now...

 

[Pinpickle]

That was incredible.

In

 

[Chris Bardon]

Yes, some of their machines seem to have depreciated significantly, however OZ and Hobbit have held their value

Well, keep in mind that a lot of WOZ buyers got in at 6500 with a bunch of risk, and Hobbit was a 7500 preorder. That was also at par dollars for the most part back then. If I'd have had to pay 9k for a Hobbit at current exchange, I would have lost a bunch of money when I sold mine.

The game looks nice though, and I do think that the UV effects could be cool. Using lighting to convey information is a good idea, and the eclipse mode sounds like a good use of the tech. Not sure whether the lower playfields are going to be any good or not-one is just a pop bumper, and the other looks a little like the ACDC one, which is OK, but not something with fantastic gameplay. Still looking forward to trying one out and seeing how it shoots though-hopefully P1 gets a showroom game at some point.

 

[RoyalPinball]

Avatar: The Battle For Pandora Pinball - Official Deep Dive​

So, I mistakenly believed that this was only themed on the second movie.
It is actually both movies.
I have to admit, as skeptical as I was last week about "another Avatar pin", I'm really impressed with what they have done.
I absolutely love how they have all the proper film assets, the lighting is truly next level and the "mando" topper looks great on the CE.
I kind of want one now...

Avatar looks like a winner and a pin that will have staying power. The world under glass and the 3 colour UV ink blows me away….just stunning to look at. The game looks to have great shots and flow from the limited view so far. The under playfield areas add another unique fun aspect. With over 20+ modes the game should over lots to do and not finish easy which is never my goal anyways. I think price for NIB doesn’t matter for most titles for the manufactures. They only make a few thousand games on average for the entire world, and those that connect with a title will open their pockets, aside from that pinball is not a hobby for shallow pockets, yet everyone tends to forget that. That being said I don’t know annyone who likes losing money, but many also forget the cost of entertainment and enjoyment. Anyone that owns a pinball (or 3 or more) all live a blessed life IMO, others out there that could never dream of such a luxury. I can’t wait to learn more about JJP Avatar, very excited.

 

[dp1622]

They have one in the showroom at P1AG!

 

[ritewhereiwant2b]

I had a WW and loved playing it. Then the screen died and they wanted well over $1000 for a 720p smallish (don't remember the exact size - 32"?) And I was like WTF? I found a local pinball repair guy (the game doctor) who found a better screen for much less. Like after 4 years an LCD screen goes?

Then there is the issue of plugging a JJP into a power bar so you can turn all your machines on and off with one switch, but they don't like that at all or my WW didn't like it and you have to reboot it with a paperclip.

...and then there is the JJP price and lack of finished code on some titles. I have to say, with the new manufacturers in the last 10 years, Stern has proven to me that they know how to consistently build a quality product and buying a NIB Stern is a no brainer.

 

[Chris Bardon]

Got to play a few games on this last night at TOPL (thanks again to Sam and Nick for bringing it out for the event), and it's pretty good. It definitely looks good, and the screen, sounds, and lights are top notch. Always a strength with JJP games. Lots of long shots on the playfield though, and that back spinner is really hard to hit. It also seemed like there was a decent amount of flipper fade by the end of the night, but the game was also always being played for a good 5 or so hours. I don't really have any great affinity for the theme either way, and the layout wasn't mind blowing in the same way that Godzilla or Foo was out of the box. The lower PF was fine I suppose, but it's pretty limited in what you can do. It's a neat gimmick, and better than the static figures under the PF on Bond, but right now it only seems to be used in one way. Scoring on the game was also all over the map, with multiballs being crazy points. I had no real sense of progression on the game, but it did seem like it was pretty easy to get Pandora letters, so maybe getting to that wizard mode will be achievable? At the end of the day though, was there $18k worth of pinball there (or more for the CE), and I think the answer is that it's hard to tell. I don't see it yet, and comparing to something like Jaws, I don't see it being 4k better than a premium (or 8k more than a pro).

 

[Smokezz]

I had a WW and loved playing it. Then the screen died and they wanted well over $1000 for a 720p smallish (don't remember the exact size - 32"?) And I was like WTF? I found a local pinball repair guy (the game doctor) who found a better screen for much less. Like after 4 years an LCD screen goes?

Then there is the issue of plugging a JJP into a power bar so you can turn all your machines on and off with one switch, but they don't like that at all or my WW didn't like it and you have to reboot it with a paperclip.

...and then there is the JJP price and lack of finished code on some titles. I have to say, with the new manufacturers in the last 10 years, Stern has proven to me that they know how to consistently build a quality product and buying a NIB Stern is a no brainer.

They're 27in 1080P LCD monitors. Any display can fail. Stern LCD's fail too... and for a 15in LCD (1366 x 768), they're $300USD to replace. Not that $1k is a reasonable price for a 27in monitor... companies love overcharging for replacement parts.

You've got Sterns worst machine in your lineup too. Rush has a really bad problem frying the node board that controls the ramp. It took them TWO YEARS to fix the problem - the boards they're sending out to people to replace fried boards are new designs apparently are a new design. One guy in the US has had 10+ boards replaced. So no, Stern is not immune to quality problems.

 

[Richard McLaughlin]

Anyone here order a Avatar LE or CE?

 

[dp1622]

Anyone here order a Avatar LE or CE?

Ordered an LE from P1. Played it in the showroom and loved it. Not ready to take the deep dive into a CE just yet.

 

[mdeslaur]

I played a few games at Pinball Expo...still not enough to get a good idea about it, but there's one thing that stood out: this is probably the first game that I like the lower playfield...it's just a few shots to get the crab thingy, and you get rewarded with a multiball (at least in the few games I played). It's the first game where I felt excited getting to the lower playfield. The top part of the lower playfield that has the pop bumper wasn't bad either once I figured out the flippers are to move the lit shot, and have nothing to do with the pop bumper itself.