Pinball Cafe Closed

[frolic]

Reading the various articles, I have concluded (my opinion from information available):

-Pinball Cafe had no license to operate
-Did not apply for a variance for their amusement business as suggested by Cnlr. Parks
-Late in the game, applied for a liquor license and tried to be a straight-up bar and remove their extra pins, but by that point the moratorium was on so they closed shop. Had they had a license earlier, the moratorium would not have affected them.
-I guess they could argue that they were "closed down" because the moratorium meant they were never going to get a license and they decided to pull the plug themselves.

I think there would be more sympathy all around if they just came out and said "this is our first business, we made some mistakes, all we wanted to do was give people a great time, unfortunately we got caught in red tape and acted too late to turn things around". Pointing fingers at "the man" isn't accurate.

I would be curious if they proved the actual business model could work.

 

[Vengeance]

Yea I'm with Frolic.

I really like the Cafe and Jason and his Wife are good people.

But you can't operate outside the rules and then blame big brother when they finally tell you to work within the rules or else.

 

[REVOLUTION]

It's a bit of a "he said / she said" scenario.. unfortunately no one can really answer these questions but Jason himself.

I'd be interested in knowing that different areas' laws are like in this case. Maybe they can re-open in Mississauga, Etobicoke or Scarborough?

 

[frolic]

Well, dunno Brock, Gord Parks was pretty black and white. If he is lying, as a city councilor he just put his neck on the block.

I think they or anyone else could reopen just about anywhere.

The Silver City near me at Eglinton has an arcade in it. Cineplex obviously got a variance. I'm sure a coffee shop featuring pinball could make a very compelling argument for a variance, and Gord Parks also thought so since he did seem to try to help them.

I guess if there is a lesson to be learned, get your licenses in order before you open.

 

[REVOLUTION]

Well, dunno Brock, Gord Parks was pretty black and white. If he is lying, as a city councilor he just put his neck on the block.

Oh I don't disagree, I'm just saying that we don't know what kinda red tape Jason had to go through to there is all.. either way, it's a shame to see the place close down. It certainly was good for pinball

Here's hoping we see a "version 2" down the road

Jason if you're reading this.. keep your chin up, buddy! The community loved what you were doing for it.

 

[amona]

From an article on the National post site:
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/12/10 ... -machines/

“They never opened legally, and they decided to close themselves,” he said. “It’s heartbreaking to lose a business, but it’s not right to blame the city.”

“We didn’t do our due diligence,” Mr. Hazzard admits.
“We wanted to do something that was fun and interesting and different. There wasn’t anything like it in Toronto.…
“It was a lot of fun. And unfortunately, it was illegal.”

Sad to see it go. This is a place I wanted to spend a lot more time at. Really enjoyed knowing I could pop in, enjoy a nice cappuccino and leave without the burden of change in my pocket.

 

[frolic]

Ok, now I'm just talking in general about the business, since business stuff is interesting to me, not trying to kick a dead horse...

So does normally a business get a license before they open? Is that how it works? Seems like one could easily just leave out the part about having multiple pins, open a coffee shop, get your license, then fill the place up. I don't think Pinball Cafe was ever fined, so nothing bad happened, other than them not getting their license in the first place. Seems like you could game the system a bit here to accomplish what you want.

I think pinball in Toronto could have lots of options, this shouldn't discourage anyone.

 

[SquidVicious]

Ok, now I'm just talking in general about the business, since business stuff is interesting to me, not trying to kick a dead horse...

So does normally a business get a license before they open? Is that how it works? Seems like one could easily just leave out the part about having multiple pins, open a coffee shop, get your license, then fill the place up. I don't think Pinball Cafe was ever fined, so nothing bad happened, other than them not getting their license in the first place. Seems like you could game the system a bit here to accomplish what you want.

I think pinball in Toronto could have lots of options, this shouldn't discourage anyone.

Of course you are assuming that no one would apply the by-law .. gaming the system would bring that about would be my guess. That being said I do not believe it is a TO wide bylaw and even if it is there still could be other places something in Mississauga near the Erindale campus of U of T or something like that ?

 

[movingpictures]

So does normally a business get a license before they open? Is that how it works?

Do you get a drivers licence before you hit the road?
Before accepting your first revenue, the owners must have the proper permits to legally conduct business.
Additions, like an alcohol licence, can be added later.

Here in Quebec, I had to jump through a lot of bureaucratic hoops to open a shop.
Not to mention all the money spent on yearly permits.
Operating without a permit is entrepreneurial suicide; unless you are slinging dope.

I'm kind of shocked the place stayed open for so long without permits.
And then blaming 'the man' for the owners oversight ... bummer all around.

 

[frolic]

Fair comments. From everything I've read, I don't think this was an insurmountable challenge. I would bet money the next attempt by someone on a pinball attraction in Toronto would get their variance as long as they follow procedure.

 

[Hazzard]

Huh. Lots of interesting comments.

I just joined the board as I haven't had a lot of time recently. Busy opening the new bar in Hamilton. Fun reading all this misinformation. Especially when it's about yourself.

Couple comments...
1. You CANNOT waltz into city hall and ask for a bylaw variance from the variances'r'us store over there on Nathan Phillips Square. It JUST DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY. If you want to cut down a tree that happens to be half on city property, ok. No problem. Get a variance. When you are directly contravening a bylaw written expressly to forbid what you are doing they don't just hand over a get out of jail free card because you asked nicely. Seriously. You think I didn't try? You honestly think I invested all that time and money and just didn't bother to apply? I made mistakes, yes, but I'm not fucking stupid.

2. This was NOT my first business. I ran a successful moving company in Toronto that I sold for a nice profit. It still exists today. Once again... YES. I MADE MISTAKES. But I'm not fucking stupid.

3. Yes. We could have stayed and fought. But I am in business to MAKE MONEY. I love pinball, sure, but spending tens of thousands of dollars and who knows how much time out of my life to champion pinball rights in Toronto so I could run a 900 square foot place in Parkdale and hook up a couple beer taps? ... Refer to the last sentence of comments number one and two.

4. Gord Perks is telling the whole truth on his site? Cause politicians never lie or spin things to cover their own ass, right? Seriously!?! What do I have to gain by making false accusations? I was NEVER going to get a business license or a liquor license and Perks was making sure of that. I know. I sat with him in person while he told me that. If you weren't at that meeting, you don't know. That simple.

5. Thanks for the support and love we got from everyone. Brock - yer the man. Like the new site. Now I own a bar. Anyone who wants to try a pinball place as a business venture, go for it. Best of luck. I'm moving mine into my living room.

JH

 

[brewmanager]

Welcome back Jason!

If you sell those Brownies out of the bar, I'll pop by for sure next time I'm in the hammer. Good luck!

 

[McMean]

Where's your new bar in the Hammer?

 

[Ancient Games]

How about some pics if you have time! Any pins?! Pool tables?? What type of bar is it?

I still have that Capt Fantastic back glass for wall art .

Mike

 

[Hazzard]

Fair comments. From everything I've read, I don't think this was an insurmountable challenge. I would bet money the next attempt by someone on a pinball attraction in Toronto would get their variance as long as they follow procedure.

I will take that bet. How much are you putting on the line? Money, meet mouth...

 

[Hazzard]

Lots of info on the bar here https://www.facebook.com/TheStowawayPubEatery

All craft beer - 12 taps. Rachel is cooking a full menu this time. Big burgers, wings, lamb shank, lots of pub classics. All fresh, all local. 100% VQA wine list. Will be very nice with some hard to find gems highlighted. Big selection of single malts, Irish whisky and Bourbon. We are also featuring the city's best rum selection with over 25 labels.

Pin Bot is in the room and playing, along with the Centipede vid. Are more pins on the way? Heh heh heh. Of course they are. You know I was never much for obeying silly laws.

Licenses should all be approved by the end of this week.

Jason

Oh. And cute girls serving. It's over 2000 Sq.Ft. Not working it myself this time. Nooooo sireeee.

 

[frolic]

Fair comments. From everything I've read, I don't think this was an insurmountable challenge. I would bet money the next attempt by someone on a pinball attraction in Toronto would get their variance as long as they follow procedure.

I will take that bet. How much are you putting on the line? Money, meet mouth...

But you never even applied for yours? not sure if that is definitive proof NO ONE would ever succeed. Anyhow, this is old news, so it's not my intention to dust this up. I do hope someone tries. Good luck with the new bar.

 

[tim.sanderson]

Looking forward to checking out the new digs, Jason. Best of luck!

 

[Hazzard]

Fair comments. From everything I've read, I don't think this was an insurmountable challenge. I would bet money the next attempt by someone on a pinball attraction in Toronto would get their variance as long as they follow procedure.

I will take that bet. How much are you putting on the line? Money, meet mouth...

But you never even applied for yours? not sure if that is definitive proof NO ONE would ever succeed. Anyhow, this is old news, so it's not my intention to dust this up. I do hope someone tries. Good luck with the new bar.

Who says I never applied? Where did this misconception come from? Please refer to my first post on this subject.

I applied with zoning, I applied with city planning, I met with my councillor, I met with my MP, I approached Rob Ford directly, I appealed to MP Kirsty Duncan who is a personal family friend hoping that she could pull some strings... what else guys? Where else should I have gone?

This is old news, I agree, but reading all these seriously misinformed opinions and constantly hearing how I just didn't bother trying to sort out the paperwork is just bullshit. Anyone who wasn't in the meetings or dealing with the mountain of crap I tried to wade through at city hall just doesn't have all the facts.

Anyway. I'm done talking about it. I know what happened and from here forward I officially don't care what anyone else thinks. Thanks for wishing us luck with the new venture.

 

[g-man]

Oh. And cute girls serving.

In Hamilton ?

I guess they could be imports from other nearby cities. :mrgreen: