Pinball Cafe Closed

[frolic]

Jason, since you're here, I am curious about something... this has nothing to do with licensing or any of those issues, lets put that behind us (I'm sure you'll be happy to, lets consider it over)....

Can a pinball "cafe" make money? did your business model ever work? Like, pretend you were all cleared to operate, could you make a go of it?

Obviously in today's world, coin drops alone aren't going to pay for anything, but can pinball as an attraction for a coffee shop or bar or something, would that work? and you make your money off the food and beverage? Was the pinball an attraction at all with the general public? You did get a fair bit of press, both opening and closing, so there seemed to be interest, but did that translate into business?

Or would those square feet be better off with something else, even just extra tables for patrons and be a regular coffee shop?

Thanks for taking the time to respond in this thread.

 

[Hazzard]

Oh. And cute girls serving.

In Hamilton ?

I guess they could be imports from other nearby cities. :mrgreen:

They are. McMaster imports them for me.

 

[Hazzard]

Jason, since you're here, I am curious about something... this has nothing to do with licensing or any of those issues, lets put that behind us (I'm sure you'll be happy to, lets consider it over)....

Can a pinball "cafe" make money? did your business model ever work? Like, pretend you were all cleared to operate, could you make a go of it?

Obviously in today's world, coin drops alone aren't going to pay for anything, but can pinball as an attraction for a coffee shop or bar or something, would that work? and you make your money off the food and beverage? Was the pinball an attraction at all with the general public? You did get a fair bit of press, both opening and closing, so there seemed to be interest, but did that translate into business?

Or would those square feet be better off with something else, even just extra tables for patrons and be a regular coffee shop?

Thanks for taking the time to respond in this thread.

Why? Thinking of giving it a shot?

There are just too many factors at play to answer that question. Was it the right location? Access to transit? Parking? What is your key demographic? Hipsters? Nostalgic dads? Kids? Is there a kitchen? Can you serve a full menu? And of course... Alcohol. Licensed or no?

You can't ask "does pinball as a business work?" It's like asking does a coffee shop as a business work. Sure it does. Sometimes. Or not. Why does Starbucks dominate in urban centres while Tim Hortons owns the small towns? Why do most independent coffe houses never make it at all?

Do people like pinball? Sure. We had players in from all over the place all the time. Did they stop in, look around spend four bucks and then go to the bar up the street to spend $100? Every time.

 

[frolic]

Thanks, Jason.

I'm just a business guy, I like to analyze numbers. I also love pinball. I won't be opening any brick and mortar anything, but I like to try and figure out what works and what doesn't.

So what I can take away from your post is that the missing component was the liquor license. No wonder that's the new venture.

 

[Hazzard]

That was my experience. In a different room in a different neighborhood, who knows? I've said it now a few times... I made mistakes. I really believed that The Pinball Cafe could function as a non-licensed establishment. I still believe that in another space this might be possible. I now know that in Parkdale it is not. If you were in a beach town with a ton of walk by traffic, a nice long summer season and plenty of tourist families I think the model would be killer. If you are tucked in a gritty hipster corner of Toronto - not so much.

I took a lot of flack in the early days for not getting a liquor license right away. There were reasons behind this that never really became public until much later. The number one being that I was denied a municipal license 6 weeks into renovations. Instead of just saying "we cannot get a liquor license until we get a municipal license" I did my best to put a happy spin on it in the media. I chose to say "everything is fine, we are going to be a non-licensed establishment where everyone can come and have a good time." I felt that this was a better way to introduce the business than letting on that we were in trouble with licensing right out of the gate.

And yes - 6 weeks into renovations. This is a key point. For the poster who asked "do you get a drivers license before you hit the road?" - sure you do. But what if you just assume that you will be able to get a drivers license because, well... why wouldn't you be issued a drivers license? Nothing wrong with driving right? Then you go out and buy a $75 000 vehicle that you have to make big payments on every month. Next thing you know you are denied a drivers license because... oh, I don't know... you have six toes on your left foot. You look around and say "What???? Seriously?!? You have to be kidding me!!!" - but they're not kidding. As long as you have six toes you will never drive legally and getting the sixth toe removed is a long, expensive and painful operation. What do you do?

What you do is you either drive illegally (my choice for the first year) or you try to unload the fancy new car and cut your losses (where we ended up in the end). At the end of the day we even said we would hack our own toe off just to get the license but were then told "Nope. Sorry. New law. Anyone who once had six toes but now has the proper five toes still has to wait a year before we license them. By the way? Did you make that big fat car payment this month?"

Anyway. I'm rambling. Let's just say that it wasn't as cut and dry as some people think. I will also say this, for the "business guys"... DON'T open a pinball place in Canada. The government will get very upset, the repair bills, parts bills and hydro bills will add up quickly and you'll end up hanging out with a bunch of guys with six toes. :shock:

 

[frolic]

Thanks for the candour. I really appreciate the insight and the effort you put in to your biz.

So, does Hamilton have limits on pins in bars as well? Will you be kept to 2 machines or something? From what you've told me, you may not even want to go past 2?

 

[Chris Bardon]

Thanks for dropping in to reply to this-nice to hear your side of the story. Sounds like a messed up situation from all ends. Running a business is hard enough, why should government come in like that and make it that much harder?

 

[Hazzard]

Hamilton is limited to three games. Be they pinball, vids, redemption... whatever. Technically. I mean, three months down the line if a fourth pin appears I'm pretty sure no one will notice. Just as long as you don't mention it on your original license applications!

Any time you want a condor, just ask.

 

[frolic]

ha, I think I got autocorrected. candour.

 

[frolic]

Just as long as you don't mention it on your original license applications!

Probably the other big take away from this thread .

 

[slacker]

Took my brother and wife and went down and supported a new bar that opened here in Hamilton called "Stowaways"
The food was amazing! The beer was cold and the Pinbot had 17 Free Credits on it when I walked in. The owner and his wife have done an amazing job putting it all on the line and opening a place that is welcoming with good food, good drinks paired with an amazing staff. They will do very well and i wish them the best! Good-bye Pinball cafe hello Stowaways!
Toronto's loss is Hamilton's gain
Thanks for an amazing night
Cheers
J..

 

[movingpictures]

Thanks for posting hazzard. Good read!