The Daily News! All about the members.
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I'm still pretty new to this hobby compared to many...about two and a half years in now. I thought it might be interesting to some of those even newer than me to read about another 'newish' collectors experience.
When I first started out I carved out a space in my basement where I figured two pins would fit nicely. I had my heart set on titles like Space Shuttle and Black Knight; those were all the rage when I was a kid, and were the titles that managed to hold on as vids were taking over most of the floor space in my local arcades (where I spent most of my leisure time in preteen-teen years). A budget of about 1500-2k per pin felt about right to me.
I tend to do a fair bit of research before purchasing just about anything, so the first thing I did was a whole lot of google searching. In my searches I stumbled across the Internet Pinball Database; an invaluable resource to read up on any title I could find, see lots of pics, and read reviews. I didn't find pinside until a little later on, but a local site I thought was interesting was RecRoom Amusements. RecRoom has pins listed for sale (mostly new but a small selection of used as well), and more importantly has a price list for used pins (at the time the price list was pretty helpful, although if you check it out now it hasn't exactly kept pace with what's happened to prices even in the short time that I've been collecting).
With that I set out on Kijiji to find my grail pins, and as it turns out they weren't so easy to find. I came across TOPEC (The Toronto Pinball Exchange, a retailer based in Hamilton). They had a Black Knight. I don't remember the exact price but the thing was beat and was over my budget. They actually had/have quite a selection of used pins, but prices are pretty steep.
Not having much luck with my grail titles, I decided to widen my scope a little. I came across a Williams Flash that looked pretty cool to me, and it was "only" $1200 bucks. The pictures on kijiji looked pretty good and the price was well in my range so I reached out. The seller on this one was 'motivated'. He described the pin as being in very good shape for its age, but that he was looking to move it to free up cash for other purchases so would take $900 if we could do a deal right away (there were a couple others listed at the time for 12-1500 so this seemed pretty good). To make the deal happen quickly he would even bring the pin to me!
Something didn't feel quite right to me so I declined the delivery. I'd never played a Flash, and I didn't want to feel obligated to buy the thing if it wasn't a good fit, so off to the big city I trekked. Good thing I did! The game was sitting in the garage. The playfield was about 30% bare wood, and the backglass was badly flaked (something I couldn't see in the kijiji pictures with the game off but you sure could see it with the game on). The game played but the flippers were weak and one of the slings wasn't kicking. Seeing this a little tip I had read on the recroom amusements site started rolling around in my head;
TIP #2: Inexperienced buyers should NOT buy games that are more than 25 years old. These games have become very unreliable (unless retro-fitted with all new electronics - circuit boards, displays, connection points, etc) and you will have difficulty keeping them running. Reliable/knowledgable pinball techs are very difficult to find and most do not do housecalls.
It's pretty funny looking back now. At the time that pin was not worth $900. With what prices have done in the short time since, even that pin would probably sell and sell quickly at that price.
Dejected but not defeated I set back to Kijiji. Next up....A seller in Toronto had just listed a Black Knight. The price was a little out of my arbitrarily set budget but I had to check it out, so back to the big city I went.
The seller lived in the basement of a small 4 plex building on the east side of the city. Wandering in to the very, very small kitchen, there he had 3 pins; two examples of Black Knight, and one Flash Gordon. There was literally just enough room for the two of us to stand in the room with the pins. Looking back this should have been a harbinger of things to come. "What could possess someone to fill their kitchen with pinball machines"? LOL
The game that was for sale was in pretty decent shape. The backglass had some not so pretty touch ups, and the magna saves were blown out and touched up, but the rest of the playfield looked good and the game played really well. I was struggling with the price. It was five hundred dollars over the top end of my budget, and I still had that 'tip' from recroom amusements rolling around in my head, so decided to sleep on it.
It was around this time that I stumbled on this site. I spent time reading some of the threads, including the "Members of the Revolution" section. I noticed that one member; "Wong", was generous with his advice to newcomers and was often referenced as 'the enabler' for his work in helping people acquire pins. I decided to reach out by PM (still to shy to post in an open forum), and described to "Wong" what I was looking for as well as the Black Knight example I was looking at to see if he had any advice.
Not only did Mike respond, but much to my surprise he invited me to come and check out his collection, play some pin, and give me pointers on things to look at when evaluating pins for purchase (Ok I admit that I had flashes of some Jeffrey Dahmer headlines, but he seemed genuine, and was it really any different than wandering into any kijiji sellers home?). Mike is still one of the most generous and welcoming people that I've met in this hobby, and I have had the pleasure of meeting some very, very good people.
Walking in to Mikes basement for the first time was a jaw dropping experience. He opened the door to his pin room and there was some of the biggest name DMD titles that I could think of. MM, Creech, TOM, TOTAN, TAF etc..etc.. His collection was (and is) awesome! We played some pin and Mike talked to me about his collecting experience and buying philosophy. He instilled in me what's continued to be one of the guiding principles in my own collecting philosophy: It might seem like a lot of money for a pinball machine, but the market price is the market price and as long as you don't grossly overpay, it's money parked rather than money spent.
Mike might have influenced my taste in pins a bit as well. Those who know Mike will have undoubtedly heard the phrase "NO RAMPS, NO DMD, NO THANKS!" Needless to say I passed on the Black Knight. The game still holds a lot of nostalgia for me and I get a tinge of excitement every time I see a nice example, but I've found that my tastes lean towards DMD's, and to newer Sterns at that (although I also love a good EM). I know this isn't everyones cup of tea, but it was important for me to learn what had staying power for me. These things are heavy, a pain to move, and they take up space, so ya better like the pins that make it into your home.
Mike guided me to my first pin, an X-men pro from our friendly neighborhood op Warlock (needless to say my arbitrary budget was also out the window at that point), and X-men is still my go-to-pin when I wander in to the basement. Within a couple weeks I followed up that purchase with a WPT from another forum member, and joined TOPL where I got to meet a lot more collectors, saw some amazing pinball collections, and fell in love with even more titles.
Oh, and my apparently arbitrary idea of having two pins at home, that went out the window too. I've had as many as fourteen pins at a time, and currently have thirteen (as many as my basement 'reasonably' fits + 1 temporarily on the main floor much to the chagrin of the GF ). I also own a bar in Guelph where we now have 8 pins operated by my good friend DBeeson. There we have a good mix of EM's, classic SS, and DMD's so I get a little more play variety there as I'm all DMD at home at the moment.
p.s. That's my story to date. I owe much thanks to this site and many of it's contributors. In no particular order; to Wong, Brock, Warlock, Spiro, Tkaye, BrewManager, HoneyBadger, Drano, Bstock, Jooky, Menace, SuperJackpot, BudFan, BigBossFan, Tim.Sanderson, Kazowi, Mitch, Maken, DBeeson, and others that I'm sure I'm forgetting; people that I've bought from, traded with, and just talked pin with....Thank you for welcoming me in to this community. It's been a great ride so far and I'm looking forward to a lot more of the same in the years to come.
I'm still pretty new to this hobby compared to many...about two and a half years in now. I thought it might be interesting to some of those even newer than me to read about another 'newish' collectors experience.
When I first started out I carved out a space in my basement where I figured two pins would fit nicely. I had my heart set on titles like Space Shuttle and Black Knight; those were all the rage when I was a kid, and were the titles that managed to hold on as vids were taking over most of the floor space in my local arcades (where I spent most of my leisure time in preteen-teen years). A budget of about 1500-2k per pin felt about right to me.
I tend to do a fair bit of research before purchasing just about anything, so the first thing I did was a whole lot of google searching. In my searches I stumbled across the Internet Pinball Database; an invaluable resource to read up on any title I could find, see lots of pics, and read reviews. I didn't find pinside until a little later on, but a local site I thought was interesting was RecRoom Amusements. RecRoom has pins listed for sale (mostly new but a small selection of used as well), and more importantly has a price list for used pins (at the time the price list was pretty helpful, although if you check it out now it hasn't exactly kept pace with what's happened to prices even in the short time that I've been collecting).
With that I set out on Kijiji to find my grail pins, and as it turns out they weren't so easy to find. I came across TOPEC (The Toronto Pinball Exchange, a retailer based in Hamilton). They had a Black Knight. I don't remember the exact price but the thing was beat and was over my budget. They actually had/have quite a selection of used pins, but prices are pretty steep.
Not having much luck with my grail titles, I decided to widen my scope a little. I came across a Williams Flash that looked pretty cool to me, and it was "only" $1200 bucks. The pictures on kijiji looked pretty good and the price was well in my range so I reached out. The seller on this one was 'motivated'. He described the pin as being in very good shape for its age, but that he was looking to move it to free up cash for other purchases so would take $900 if we could do a deal right away (there were a couple others listed at the time for 12-1500 so this seemed pretty good). To make the deal happen quickly he would even bring the pin to me!
Something didn't feel quite right to me so I declined the delivery. I'd never played a Flash, and I didn't want to feel obligated to buy the thing if it wasn't a good fit, so off to the big city I trekked. Good thing I did! The game was sitting in the garage. The playfield was about 30% bare wood, and the backglass was badly flaked (something I couldn't see in the kijiji pictures with the game off but you sure could see it with the game on). The game played but the flippers were weak and one of the slings wasn't kicking. Seeing this a little tip I had read on the recroom amusements site started rolling around in my head;
TIP #2: Inexperienced buyers should NOT buy games that are more than 25 years old. These games have become very unreliable (unless retro-fitted with all new electronics - circuit boards, displays, connection points, etc) and you will have difficulty keeping them running. Reliable/knowledgable pinball techs are very difficult to find and most do not do housecalls.
It's pretty funny looking back now. At the time that pin was not worth $900. With what prices have done in the short time since, even that pin would probably sell and sell quickly at that price.
Dejected but not defeated I set back to Kijiji. Next up....A seller in Toronto had just listed a Black Knight. The price was a little out of my arbitrarily set budget but I had to check it out, so back to the big city I went.
The seller lived in the basement of a small 4 plex building on the east side of the city. Wandering in to the very, very small kitchen, there he had 3 pins; two examples of Black Knight, and one Flash Gordon. There was literally just enough room for the two of us to stand in the room with the pins. Looking back this should have been a harbinger of things to come. "What could possess someone to fill their kitchen with pinball machines"? LOL
The game that was for sale was in pretty decent shape. The backglass had some not so pretty touch ups, and the magna saves were blown out and touched up, but the rest of the playfield looked good and the game played really well. I was struggling with the price. It was five hundred dollars over the top end of my budget, and I still had that 'tip' from recroom amusements rolling around in my head, so decided to sleep on it.
It was around this time that I stumbled on this site. I spent time reading some of the threads, including the "Members of the Revolution" section. I noticed that one member; "Wong", was generous with his advice to newcomers and was often referenced as 'the enabler' for his work in helping people acquire pins. I decided to reach out by PM (still to shy to post in an open forum), and described to "Wong" what I was looking for as well as the Black Knight example I was looking at to see if he had any advice.
Not only did Mike respond, but much to my surprise he invited me to come and check out his collection, play some pin, and give me pointers on things to look at when evaluating pins for purchase (Ok I admit that I had flashes of some Jeffrey Dahmer headlines, but he seemed genuine, and was it really any different than wandering into any kijiji sellers home?). Mike is still one of the most generous and welcoming people that I've met in this hobby, and I have had the pleasure of meeting some very, very good people.
Walking in to Mikes basement for the first time was a jaw dropping experience. He opened the door to his pin room and there was some of the biggest name DMD titles that I could think of. MM, Creech, TOM, TOTAN, TAF etc..etc.. His collection was (and is) awesome! We played some pin and Mike talked to me about his collecting experience and buying philosophy. He instilled in me what's continued to be one of the guiding principles in my own collecting philosophy: It might seem like a lot of money for a pinball machine, but the market price is the market price and as long as you don't grossly overpay, it's money parked rather than money spent.
Mike might have influenced my taste in pins a bit as well. Those who know Mike will have undoubtedly heard the phrase "NO RAMPS, NO DMD, NO THANKS!" Needless to say I passed on the Black Knight. The game still holds a lot of nostalgia for me and I get a tinge of excitement every time I see a nice example, but I've found that my tastes lean towards DMD's, and to newer Sterns at that (although I also love a good EM). I know this isn't everyones cup of tea, but it was important for me to learn what had staying power for me. These things are heavy, a pain to move, and they take up space, so ya better like the pins that make it into your home.
Mike guided me to my first pin, an X-men pro from our friendly neighborhood op Warlock (needless to say my arbitrary budget was also out the window at that point), and X-men is still my go-to-pin when I wander in to the basement. Within a couple weeks I followed up that purchase with a WPT from another forum member, and joined TOPL where I got to meet a lot more collectors, saw some amazing pinball collections, and fell in love with even more titles.
Oh, and my apparently arbitrary idea of having two pins at home, that went out the window too. I've had as many as fourteen pins at a time, and currently have thirteen (as many as my basement 'reasonably' fits + 1 temporarily on the main floor much to the chagrin of the GF ). I also own a bar in Guelph where we now have 8 pins operated by my good friend DBeeson. There we have a good mix of EM's, classic SS, and DMD's so I get a little more play variety there as I'm all DMD at home at the moment.
p.s. That's my story to date. I owe much thanks to this site and many of it's contributors. In no particular order; to Wong, Brock, Warlock, Spiro, Tkaye, BrewManager, HoneyBadger, Drano, Bstock, Jooky, Menace, SuperJackpot, BudFan, BigBossFan, Tim.Sanderson, Kazowi, Mitch, Maken, DBeeson, and others that I'm sure I'm forgetting; people that I've bought from, traded with, and just talked pin with....Thank you for welcoming me in to this community. It's been a great ride so far and I'm looking forward to a lot more of the same in the years to come.
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Great store Che but I think I guided you for your first 3-4 pins until you finally learned how to fly on your own. Thank god you reached out to me in time before buying from TOPEC! When we first started talking you told me your absolute max budget was $2500 and only wanted "one" pin which was Black Knight. It didn't take me long to convince you to almost double your budget and pull the trigger on a much better game which was XMen Pro. Fast forward not even a year later I'm still hooking you up with $6-12k pins and now you have a pretty serious collection and addiction.
I said similar things too when I first got into this hobby like $1500 is my max and >$2500 is just batshit crazy money for a pinball machine. It's funny how quickly you get de-sensitized to pricing in such a short amount of time. Not long after I bought my first DMD which was DM for $1350 and I remember a year later in a short span of time I bought a Shadow for $2400 and then bought TOM and GNR for $7000 two weeks later. So much for $1500 is my max and only needing 1-2 pins. I was pretty nervous at the time because I had never spent so much money and back then who knew where pin prices were going because all my friends at the time told me it's at the peak and bubble going to soon burst.
I also sold my pool table too because I was sick and tired of having to sell something to bring something else in being space constrained at 4 pins. After my pool table was sold in Oct 2011 I remember standing in all that empty space saying this is great and I should be good for at least a year. I didn't even reach the end of 2012 and I was having to shuffling things around to make room for now 10 pins! This hobby is a very slippery slope and lots of fun. I'm sure if Che was to make a collage of all his pins bought in the first year the timeline would probably mirror my first year shown here
My brother in-law Keith above played a huge part in my addiction because the stairs in my old house were brutal. He was also happy and willing to dress for the occasion to pose for the camera that I use to share with everyone online whenever I bought a game home. I'll never forget the one time he helped me chase down a kijiji ad for a $2500 Champion Pub out by Rice Lake. I had no idea who the seller was and he claimed to not be a member on any local pinball forums. I was working that Saturday when the ad dropped and didn't wanna lose out on the game to pick up after 5pm. So I called Keith to drop whatever he was doing which is usually go fishing and I paid him $200 to go grab it for me. When he arrived and knocked on the door, the seller looked at him oddly and then flipped Keith two middle fingers and said "I know you, your brother in-law is that asian guy." What a small world and I guess he did know of or at least lurked on the forums.
Here is another shout out to all you lurkers... speak up, don't be shy, make new friends/connections and conduct yourself with integrity and respect in the community.
I said similar things too when I first got into this hobby like $1500 is my max and >$2500 is just batshit crazy money for a pinball machine. It's funny how quickly you get de-sensitized to pricing in such a short amount of time. Not long after I bought my first DMD which was DM for $1350 and I remember a year later in a short span of time I bought a Shadow for $2400 and then bought TOM and GNR for $7000 two weeks later. So much for $1500 is my max and only needing 1-2 pins. I was pretty nervous at the time because I had never spent so much money and back then who knew where pin prices were going because all my friends at the time told me it's at the peak and bubble going to soon burst.
I also sold my pool table too because I was sick and tired of having to sell something to bring something else in being space constrained at 4 pins. After my pool table was sold in Oct 2011 I remember standing in all that empty space saying this is great and I should be good for at least a year. I didn't even reach the end of 2012 and I was having to shuffling things around to make room for now 10 pins! This hobby is a very slippery slope and lots of fun. I'm sure if Che was to make a collage of all his pins bought in the first year the timeline would probably mirror my first year shown here
My brother in-law Keith above played a huge part in my addiction because the stairs in my old house were brutal. He was also happy and willing to dress for the occasion to pose for the camera that I use to share with everyone online whenever I bought a game home. I'll never forget the one time he helped me chase down a kijiji ad for a $2500 Champion Pub out by Rice Lake. I had no idea who the seller was and he claimed to not be a member on any local pinball forums. I was working that Saturday when the ad dropped and didn't wanna lose out on the game to pick up after 5pm. So I called Keith to drop whatever he was doing which is usually go fishing and I paid him $200 to go grab it for me. When he arrived and knocked on the door, the seller looked at him oddly and then flipped Keith two middle fingers and said "I know you, your brother in-law is that asian guy." What a small world and I guess he did know of or at least lurked on the forums.
Here is another shout out to all you lurkers... speak up, don't be shy, make new friends/connections and conduct yourself with integrity and respect in the community.
Bigbossfan
Active Member
Well said Che. Mike is by far (IMHO) one of the most valuable members to the Toronto pinball scene. He guided me as well in my early days of collecting, still does to some extent (although I do ignore his advice from time to time, 'cause I'm just too damned impulsive!).
As Wong says above to any newbies and lurkers "Here is another shout out to all you lurkers... speak up, don't be shy, make new friends/connections and conduct yourself with integrity and respect in the community" This is important. Don't be a douche, don't screw someone over for a few bucks, because it will come back to haunt you and word passes around quite quickly. Don't be "that guy".
As Wong says above to any newbies and lurkers "Here is another shout out to all you lurkers... speak up, don't be shy, make new friends/connections and conduct yourself with integrity and respect in the community" This is important. Don't be a douche, don't screw someone over for a few bucks, because it will come back to haunt you and word passes around quite quickly. Don't be "that guy".
I am a lurker
But happy reading around here. Also happy buying a pin from Che
But happy reading around here. Also happy buying a pin from Che
meegis
Well-Known Member
I agree with this, problem is, a lot of shit gets spread when it shouldn't and often it is false and grossly embellished. Too many people point fingers and it does spread quickly.
I kept my streak alive. I successfully avoided posting a game for sale on Kijiji. Keeping it in the Pinball Revolution family.
staydown
Member
Welcome staydown!
I definitely read more than I post...but every interaction I've had with the members has been really positive. Some really great people on here and some really fantastic and interesting collections out there, so I'd mirror Reg's comments. Don't be intimidated. This is a really welcoming and friendly space.
Took time yesterday to dive headfirst into the Stern Big Game project I brought back from Allentown. MPU is fuzzy and green, the PF had seen better days and the wiring is questionable at best (with a few cut connectors to boot). I'm prepping the playfield for clearcoat currently. After a good clean I tackled the area in the before and after picks below for touchups. I was armed with a good photo of the area, provided by Drano, to work from. Turned out good...but it's definitely in an area where you don't have to be exact--there is a bit of room for freestyle!
I have more things on the go and in motion than I have time to type.
Is it anything other than expected that I just want to go and play Volley?
Is it anything other than expected that I just want to go and play Volley?
Work is the busiest of my 24 years of running my company.
Touched a few machines tonight briefly, the first in several weeks...
Touched a few machines tonight briefly, the first in several weeks...
I'm going to start posting here again, not on individual threads...
Bubble bursting? thread
........................................
Here is the crux.
100's of people watch.
1000's of people are member's.
10 of us care about any 1 thing me thinks.
Bubble bursting? thread
........................................
Here is the crux.
100's of people watch.
1000's of people are member's.
10 of us care about any 1 thing me thinks.
Rockin
Member
Managed to reflow solder on a board yesterday without toasting the board, and it works!. I know, baby steps, but I'm starting to enjoy working on machines almost as much as playing them.
I bought a ROM burner. Let's see if someone with minimal computer skills can figure out how to burn some Bally roms.
Rockin
Member
Repinned a connector and reflowed some solder on my newest acquisition, only to hear a loud pop and only have GI when I restarted it. Fortunately just had one wire and a key reversed. Everything working fine now.
Rockin
Member
Working on the new games room, so I'll be ready to add to the collection when this is over. It should be done by June, except maybe the electrical, hopefully the Electrician can come back by then.
I was doing some browsing on the site, and started wondering what happened to all the old regular posters, and also why the newer members are so quiet. I haven't been around that long, but the total members hit 1000 just after I joined, and it's over 3000 now. How is everyone doing?
Lets hear from you.
I was doing some browsing on the site, and started wondering what happened to all the old regular posters, and also why the newer members are so quiet. I haven't been around that long, but the total members hit 1000 just after I joined, and it's over 3000 now. How is everyone doing?
Lets hear from you.